Finding velocity given potentials of two parallel plates

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a charged particle moving between two parallel plates with different electric potentials. The context is centered around the concepts of electric potential energy, kinetic energy, and the work-energy theorem as they relate to the motion of the particle, which is either an electron or a proton. The original poster is attempting to determine the particle's speed as it reaches the second plate after starting with an initial speed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster presents two attempts at solving the problem using energy conservation principles, questioning the discrepancies in their results. Some participants suggest that the work done should be expressed as negative due to the nature of the force involved. Others express confusion regarding the signs in the equations and the implications of negative work in this context.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the correct application of the work-energy theorem and the signs associated with work and potential energy. There is a focus on clarifying the relationship between work done on the particle and its effect on kinetic energy. Multiple interpretations of the work done are being considered, particularly in relation to the direction of force and motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of electric potential and work in the context of charged particles, with specific attention to the assumptions made about the particle's charge and the implications of potential differences. There is an acknowledgment of the need for clarity regarding the definitions and signs used in the equations presented.

Sho Kano
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Homework Statement


A charged particle (either an electron or a proton) is moving rightward between two parallel charged plates separated by distance d=2.87mm. The plate potentials are V1=-75.8V and V2=-49V. The particle is slowing from an initial speed of 90.0 km/s at the left plate. What is its speed just as it reaches plate 2?

Homework Equations


U = qV
W = ΔKE
KE = 1/2mv^2

The Attempt at a Solution


The particle is a proton because it is slowing down towards a plate of higher potential.

Attempt #1 using energy,
{ U }_{ 0 }\quad +\quad { K }_{ 0 }\quad =\quad { U }_{ f }\quad +\quad { K }_{ f }\\ { U }_{ 0 }\quad -\quad { U }_{ f }\quad +\quad { K }_{ 0 }\quad =\quad { K }_{ f }\\ \frac { 2 }{ { m }_{ p } } { [q }_{ p }{ V }_{ 0 }\quad -\quad { q }_{ p }{ V }_{ f }\quad +\quad \frac { 1 }{ 2 } { m }_{ p }{ v }_{ 0 }^{ 2 }]\quad =\quad { v }_{ f }^{ 2 }\\ 1.2e27*[-1.2e-17\quad +\quad 7.84e-18\quad +\quad 6.76e-18]\quad =\quad { v }_{ f }^{ 2 }\\ { v }_{ f }\quad =\quad 54448.79\quad m/s

Attempt #2 using energy
W\quad =\quad \Delta K\\ q\Delta V\quad =\quad Kf\quad -\quad Ki\\ q\Delta V\quad +\quad Ki\quad =\quad Kf\\ \frac { 2 }{ 1.67e-27 } [26.8*1.6e-19\quad +\quad 0.5*1.67e-27*{ 90000 }^{ 2 }]\quad =\quad { v }f^{ 2 }\\ vf\quad \neq \quad 54448.79

Is 54448 m/s the correct answer? How come when I use the work energy theorem, the answer doesn't come out right? I noticed if I change the W done in attempt #2 to negative, the answer matches that of attempt #1... why?
 
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It should be ##-q \Delta V## for work, as the work done is the integral over the negative of the force.
 
mfb said:
It should be ##-q \Delta V## for work, as the work done is the integral over the negative of the force.
I thought work was the positive integral of force, I've heard of voltage being the negative integral of electric field, but not this.
 
mfb said:
It should be ##-q \Delta V## for work, as the work done is the integral over the negative of the force.
There is a negative in gravitational potential energy formula, but that is because negative work is done for an object to get closer to earth. So in this case, negative work is done to "slow" down the proton? (or get the proton closer to the less positive plate?)
 

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