FINITE potential step - SOS - got lost in system of equation

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a quantum mechanics problem involving a beam of electrons encountering a finite potential step. The original poster is attempting to determine the transmission of current when the energy of the electrons is greater than the potential energy of the step.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster outlines their approach using boundary conditions to derive a system of equations related to wave functions in different regions. They express concern about the validity of their approximation that the energy is significantly greater than the potential energy. Other participants question the appropriateness of this approximation given the specific energy values provided.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's approach, providing feedback on the calculations and suggesting resources for further study. Some express uncertainty about the algebra involved and the implications of complex numbers in the results, while others offer insights into relevant texts that may clarify the algebraic steps needed for the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the lack of detailed derivations in available literature for cases where the energy is greater than the potential energy, as well as the challenges posed by the algebra involved in the problem. Participants note that the original poster's assumptions may need reevaluation based on the specific energy values given.

71GA
Messages
208
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Beam of electrons with energy ##10eV## hits the potential step (##8eV## high and ##0.5nm## wide). How much of the current is transmitted?

Homework Equations


I know that energy mentioned in the statement is kinetic energy so keep in mind when reading that ##E\equiv E_k##.

In our case the kinetic energy is larger than the potential energy ##\boxed{E>E_p}## and this is why stationary states for the regions 1, 2, 3 (picture) are as folows:

\begin{align}
\psi(x)_1 &=Ae^{iLx}+B^{-iLx} && L=\sqrt{\tfrac{2mE}{\hbar^2}}=1.619\times 10^{10}\tfrac{1}{m}\\
\psi(x)_2 &=Ce^{iKx} +De^{-iKx} && K=\sqrt{\tfrac{2m(E-E_p)}{\hbar^2}}=0.724\times 10^{10}\tfrac{1}{m}\\
\psi(x)_3 &=Ee^{iLx}
\end{align}

The Attempt at a Solution



I first used the boundary conditions for the border 1-2 and got a system of equations:

\begin{align}
A+B &= C+D\\
iLA-iLB&=iKC-iKD\\
&\downarrow\\
A+B &= C+D\\
A-B &= \tfrac{K}{L}(C-D)\\
&\left\downarrow \substack{\text{I used the assumption that}\\\text{$E \gg E_p$ and got the simplified}\\ \text{relation between L and K:}\\ \tfrac{L}{K}=\sqrt{E/E_p}\gg 1 \Longrightarrow L\gg 1\\ \text{and hence}\\ \tfrac{K}{L}=\sqrt{E_p/E}\ll 1 \Longrightarrow K\ll 1} \right.\\
A + B &= C+ D\\
A-B &= 0\\
&\downarrow~\Sigma\\
2A &=C+D\\
&\downarrow\\
C&=2A-D
\end{align}

Now i used the boundary conditions for the border 2-3 and got a system of equations in which i inserted the above result:

\begin{align}
Ce^{iKd} + De^{-iKd} &= Ee^{iLd}\\
iKCe^{iKd} -iK De^{-iKd} &= iLEe^{iLd}\\
&\downarrow\\
Ce^{iKd} + De^{-iKd} &= Ee^{iLd}\\
Ce^{iKd} -De^{-iKd} &= \tfrac{L}{K}Ee^{iLd}\longleftarrow\substack{\text{Things get weird}\\\text{when i insert }C=2A-D}\\
&\downarrow\\
2Ae^{iKd} -De^{iKd} + De^{-iKd} &= Ee^{iLd}\\
2Ae^{iKd}-De^{iKd} -De^{-iKd} &= \tfrac{L}{K}Ee^{iLd}\\
&\downarrow \substack{ \text{$L$ is very big while $K$ is very small}}\\
2A &= Ee^{iLd}\\
2A -2D &= \tfrac{L}{K}Ee^{iLd}
\end{align}

Now this result is what i don't understand. First equation gives me a ratio ##E/A=2\exp[-iLd]## which i think i need to calculate the transmissivity, but it is a complex exponential. Is this possible? How do i continue? Is this the way to solve this kind of case or did i go completely wrong?

This is my first finite potential well problem and i have been searching the web for a loong time to even find 2 videos (video 1 and video 2) for a similar problem but for the case when ##E<E_p##. The professor in the video allso uses similar approximation - but in his case ##E \ll E_p##.

In the appendix there is allso a scan of the problem solved on the paper just in case anyone likes it this way. It is in Slovenian language but i added some headings to help you reading.
 

Attachments

  • QM_tunneling.jpg
    QM_tunneling.jpg
    24.3 KB · Views: 454
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
You are on the right track. As you said, you need to calculate the transitivity, that will give you the desired probability.

##T=\left| \frac{E}{A} \right|^2##

You have some mistake on the result you've found anyway. I don't know where the mistake is, you should check it by your self, the transmission can never be bigger than one. You can find this problem solved in Cohen Tannoudji, if that helps. Page 72.
 
Good to know that i am at least on the right track. But do you think my approximation ##E \gg E_p## is a bit too idealistic - because i have ##E=10eV## and ##E_p=8eV##. A bit idealistic I would say...

Telemachus said:
You can find this problem solved in Cohen Tannoudji, if that helps. Page 72.

I will chech this for sure. I hope i get some more detail. Is there any book which shows all the algebra for the case when ##E>E_p##(scattering problem) and for the case when ##E<E_p## (tunelling). I know that there is a lot of algebra to do but all of the books just avoid it - that's like letting reader down at the hardest part of the 1-D QM! Long storry short i need this and if anzone has ny papers please scan them and post here.
 
I don't think it's valid to consider 10 as being much greater than 8.
 
TSny said:
I don't think it's valid to consider 10 as being much greater than 8.

I know, but i haven't found any derivation (in any of the books i have read) for the case when ##E>E_p## and not ##E\gg E_p##. Noone does the hard part - the algebra.
 
I think Griffiths works those details, I should check it, but I'm almost sure. Perhaps he doesn't treat this specific problem, but he put everything on the examples he gives. Anyway, with the help that Cohen gives it's enough for me. There are not many ways of getting this wrong. I didn't see that approximation that you did there. The only thing that's left on Cohen to the reader is the matching of the boundary conditions, if you work it carefully you can't get it wrong.
 
Telemachus said:
I didn't see that approximation that you did.
I would prefer to get my hands on the cases when ##E>E_p##, ##E<E_p## and not the extremes like ##E\gg E_p##, ##E\ll E_p##. I was only trying to derive the extreme epproximation because i didn't know how to do it properly i guess...
 
Telemachus said:
You can find this problem solved in Cohen Tannoudji, if that helps. Page 72.
He just describes the result and doesn't do the algebra. He only posts the final equation for the tunneling effect (##E<E_p##) and scattering problem when (##E>E_p##). Same level of detail as Wikipedia.
 
71GA said:
... i haven't found any derivation (in any of the books i have read) for the case when ##E>E_p## and not ##E\gg E_p##. Noone does the hard part - the algebra.

Right. The algebra is tedious, but fairly straight forward. I don't recall any texts where the algebra steps are shown.
 
  • #10
I found a nice detailed algebra explanation for the case ##E < E_p## here (he is solving the system of eq. using matrix form - this is what i am not so familiar with). I am almost satisfied now. But i still have to find the algebra for ##E>E_p##... If anyone knows any similar sites please post a link...

After some studying i think that on the webpage i posted that guy used the procedure described in QM book from Merzbacher - page 97
 
Last edited:
  • #11
71GA said:
I found a nice detailed algebra explanation for the case ##E < E_p## here

That link still looks kind of formidable to me. It's really not that hard to just push it through by elementary algebra. It helps to simplify the notation.

Let ##a = e^{iKd}##, ##b = e^{iLd}##, and ## r = \frac{K}{L}##. Then you can write your four boundary equations as

##A+B = C+D \ \ \ \ \ ## (1)

##A-B = rC - rD \ \ \ ## (2)

##aC+a^*D = bE \ \ \ \ \ ## (3)

##raC - ra^*D = bE \ \ \ ## (4)

Use (3) and (4) to solve for ##C## and ##D## in terms of ##E##.

Eliminate ##B## from (1) and (2) to get an equation that relates ##A## to ##C## and ##D##. Then substitute your expressions you found for ##C## and ##D## to get the relation between ##A## and ##E##.
 
  • #12
I will try this. Thank you. In case i get into trouble i ll post here.
 
  • #13
After some algebra i did get the equation which gives the ratio between ##A## and ##E##:

$$\frac{A}{E}=\frac{e^{iLd}}{2LK}\left[ K^2 \cosh(iKd)-L^2\sinh(iKd)+KLe^{-iKd} \right]$$

I am a bit worried because i have a complex number in the hyperbolic cosine and sine. Is it still possible i am on the right track?

I know that for my case the transmission coeficient is calculated using this ratio i have obtained ##T=|E/A|^2## which means i will have to multiply the result by its complex conjugate, but will i get rid of those complex hyperbolic functions discussed earlier?

In the result i should get there is no complex numbers:


Ignore ##t## while ##k_1\equiv L## and ##k_2\equiv K## so that zou will see the conection with my result.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #14
71GA said:
After some algebra i did get the equation which gives the ratio between ##A## and ##E##:

$$\frac{A}{E}=\frac{e^{iLd}}{2LK}\left[ K^2 \cosh(iKd)-L^2\sinh(iKd)+KLe^{-iKd} \right]$$

I am a bit worried because i have a complex number in the hyperbolic cosine and sine. Is it still possible i am on the right track?

You can use the identities ##cosh(ix) = cos(x)## and ##sinh(ix) = isin(x)## to replace the hyperbolic functions with trig functions.

You appear to be on the right track. Most of your terms look like what you should get. However, your result is not yet correct. I believe that E/A should equal 1 in the limit d → 0.

I know that for my case the transmission coeficient is calculated using this ratio i have obtained ##T=|E/A|^2## which means i will have to multiply the result by its complex conjugate, but will i get rid of those complex hyperbolic functions discussed earlier?

Yes, you will get rid of the complex numbers when multiplying by the complex conjugate.

If you want to check some intermediate steps, I got the following expressions for C and D in terms of E

$$C = \frac{b(1+r)E}{2ar}$$ and $$D = -\frac{b(1-r)E}{2a^*r}$$
Also,
$$2A = (1+r)C+(1-r)D$$
 
  • #15
Ok i did it. Thank you all :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K