Flaw in my proof of something impossible

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the injectivity of the function ##g(x)## based on the condition that if ##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2))## then ##x_1 = x_2##. Participants explore the implications of this condition and the validity of a proof presented by one participant, which claims that ##g(x)## must be one-one despite acknowledging that it should not be.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof claiming that if ##g(x)## is many-one, it leads to a contradiction, thus concluding that ##g(x)## must be one-one.
  • Another participant challenges the conclusion by stating that the derived implication ##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 \ne x_2## is absurd, providing a counterexample with equal inputs.
  • A third participant points out that the logic used in the proof is flawed, suggesting that the chosen values ##y_1## and ##y_2## do not necessarily correspond to the inputs ##x_1## and ##x_2##.
  • Concerns are raised about the justification of the implication ##f(x_1) \ne f(x_2) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##, questioning whether ##f## is assumed to be one-to-one.
  • Participants express a sense of personal error and uncertainty regarding their understanding of the topic, with one participant apologizing for the perceived silliness of their question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the proof or the implications drawn from it. Multiple competing views remain regarding the injectivity of ##g(x)## and the assumptions about ##f(x)##.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the function ##f## and its injectivity, as well as the implications of the proof presented. The discussion reflects a lack of clarity on these points.

Buffu
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Given :- $$g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 = x_2$$

Question :- Check whether ##g(x)## is injective or not.

Now this is of-course false; counter examples are easy to provide. But I proved that ##g(x)## must be one-one even after knowing the fact it must not.

Here is the proof :-

Let ##g(x)## be many-one
let ##f(x_1) = y_1## and ##f(x_2) = y_2##
Now,
##g(y_1) = g(y_2) \implies y_1 \ne y_2## for some ##y_1, y_2##
##y_1 \ne y_2 \implies f(x_1) \ne f(x_2) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

Putting all together, we get,
##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

Which is contradictory to the given statement. So by proof of contradiction, we conclude that ##g(x)## is one-one under the given condition.
Which of my statement(s) are false ?
 
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Buffu said:
Given :- $$g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 = x_2$$

Question :- Check whether ##g(x)## is injective or not.

Now this is of-course false; counter examples are easy to provide. But I proved that ##g(x)## must be one-one even after knowing the fact it must not.

Here is the proof :-

Let ##g(x)## be many-one
let ##f(x_1) = y_1## and ##f(x_2) = y_2##
Now,
##g(y_1) = g(y_2) \implies y_1 \ne y_2## for some ##y_1, y_2##
##y_1 \ne y_2 \implies f(x_1) \ne f(x_2) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

Putting all together, we get,
##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

Which is contradictory to the given statement. So by proof of contribution, we conclude that ##g(x)## is one-one under the given condition.
Which of my statement(s) are false ?:frown::frown::headbang::headbang:

Leaving aside your proof, the conclusion you reach is absurd:

##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

Let ##x_1 = x_2 = a##

Then ##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(a)) = g(f(x_2))##
 
Buffu said:
let ##f(x_1) = y_1## and ##f(x_2) = y_2##
Now,
##g(y_1) = g(y_2) \implies y_1 \ne y_2## for some ##y_1, y_2##
Those "some y1,2" don't have to have corresponding x1,2, you are reversing the logic of choosing them.

Let g be an arbitrary non-injective function R->R and f be a function {0}->{0} with (obviously) f(0)=0. See if your proof works. ##g(f(x_1)) = g(f(x_2)) \implies x_1 = x_2## is true.
 
Buffu said:
##f(x_1) \ne f(x_2) \implies x_1 \ne x_2##

How do you justify that implication? Is ##f## given to be 1-to-1 ?
 
PeroK said:
the conclusion you reach is absurd
Thanks for help. I am certain that I am the only one that commit such blunders.
Stephen Tashi said:
How do you justify that implication? Is fff given to be 1-to-1 ?
Yes, that was a bad idea. Sorry for wasting your time by posting this silly question. I will consider twice before posting any question now on.
 
Buffu said:
Thanks for help. I am certain that I am the only one that commit such blunders.
No you're not. If you were, this forum would not exist :)

Yes, that was a bad idea. Sorry for wasting your time by posting this silly question. I will consider twice before posting any question now on.
Don't worry. You learned something, and that's what this forum is for. You have nothing to be ashamed of. The big problem is all those people who don't understand math and don't care either.
 
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