# Four forces?

1. Apr 4, 2012

### thetexan

four forces???

There are four forces supposedly. But isnt gravity not a force. It appears like a force but what we see as effects of gravity is really a warping of space due to the effects of mass on that area of space. In other words, there is really no force causing things to attract. They appear to attract due to a warping of their space but the true cause of the apparent attraction is something else.

Doesnt that leave us with just three forces? But then, what causes mass to have an effect on space?

tex

2. Apr 4, 2012

### ndung200790

Re: four forces???

I heard that we are trying to quantize ''general relativity theory''.I think that if we can quantize the space-time metric into quantum particle then it is natural to call ''gravity force'' being 4th force.Because ''force'' in QFT is the exchange boson particles process between fermions.

3. Apr 4, 2012

### Vanadium 50

Staff Emeritus
Re: four forces???

You are getting all tangled up in language. First, there is no reason not to call gravity a force. It acts like a force. Second, even if that were not true, your statement is "because gravity doesn't have every property of a force, it must not have any properties of a force" which does not follow.

4. Apr 4, 2012

### thetexan

Re: four forces???

I dont mean to make any conclusion if I seemed to do so.

There is something about mass that tends to warp space. Cause and effect. The first question is what is that something that warps space. It is probably some kind of different force (different from the first three) or it is some property of the three we dont know about. In any case there is something going on in the relationship between mass and space.

We think of gravity as a force that attracts two massive objects when, rather, we believe that the effect we think of as attraction is really just a redirection of an object due to the fact that the space between the two objects causes movement toward each other that we think of as an attraction rather than a redirection due to space warpage.

I guess the question is what is it about mass that warps space. It must be a force. There must be some kind of communication between the mass and the surrounding space. Otherwise space would not be aware of the presence of the mass. Of course, one method to warp space with no communication or force would be simple displacement...the physical presence of the mass displaces an otherwise pristine space forcing it out of shape by simply moving it out of the way. Similar to me taking my fist and pushing against and displacing a rubber membrane. What force is that? When one jumps into a pool of water and the water moves out of the way of the body, which of the four forces can that be attributed to?

tex

5. Apr 5, 2012

### ndung200790

Re: four forces???

I think that we must content with axiom of mass warp space-time.Because we do not ''really'' understand the ontology of space-time(to nowadays).Please teach me some things if I am wrong!

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