Free Fall & Gravity: Feelings & Differences

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of free fall and gravity, specifically addressing whether a person feels weightlessness or differences in free fall under varying gravitational accelerations, such as 10 m/s² versus 25 m/s². It also explores the similarities and differences between free fall and floating in space, touching on the effects of gravitational gradients and tidal forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that free fall results in weightlessness, as it involves zero proper acceleration, regardless of the gravitational strength.
  • Others argue that a person would not be able to distinguish between free falls at different gravitational accelerations if blindfolded, assuming no air resistance.
  • One participant asserts that free fall means speed accelerates, while another counters that free fall is characterized by feeling weightless, independent of speed or coordinate acceleration.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of floating in space, suggesting it is similar to free fall, while others challenge this by noting that in free fall, different parts of the body experience varying gravitational forces due to gradients.
  • There are mentions of tidal forces and how they affect objects in non-uniform gravitational fields, with some participants referencing the equivalence principle and the curvature of spacetime in general relativity.
  • One participant introduces the idea of extreme gravitational effects, such as "spaghettification," in strong gravitational fields like those near neutron stars or black holes.
  • Another participant notes that real gravitational fields are typically non-uniform, with a suggestion that uniform density spheres could create exceptions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between free fall and floating in space, with no consensus reached on whether they are identical experiences. The discussion includes both agreement on certain principles, such as the concept of weightlessness in free fall, and significant disagreement regarding the implications of gravitational gradients and tidal forces.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the effects of varying gravitational fields and the conditions under which free fall and floating may be perceived differently. The nuances of gravitational gradients and their effects on bodies in free fall remain unresolved.

rajeshmarndi
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does a person feel weightlessness or any differences when he make a free fall under gravity of different values say 10m/s^2 or 25 m/s^2.

Also it is said a person float in empty space is similar to a free fall. Free fall means it speed accelerates, then it would reach an infinite speed if it remain in free fall.
 
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also can a person tell the differences if he is dropped in a free fall of 10 m/s^2 and 25 m/s^2 with his eye blind folded and can he tell that he is falling. I understand its the air resistance that gives him the drag, so assuming no air, only gravity.
 
rajeshmarndi said:
Free fall means it speed accelerates,
No. Free fall means zero proper acceleration (you feel weightless). This is a frame independent (absolute) measure and has nothing to do with speed or coordinate acceleration which depend on the reference frame.
 
does a person feel weightlessness or any differences when he make a free fall under gravity of different values say 10m/s^2 or 25 m/s^2.

person feels weightlessness...that is what FREEFALL is...zero acceleration locally as AT posted...but to a distant observer it would appear the individual IS accelerating...which would be a coordinate acceleration.
 
rajeshmarndi said:
does a person feel weightlessness or any differences when he make a free fall under gravity of different values say 10m/s^2 or 25 m/s^2.

Also it is said a person float in empty space is similar to a free fall. Free fall means it speed accelerates, then it would reach an infinite speed if it remain in free fall.
Floating in space is identical to free fall, no matter what gravitational body is nearby that is giving you a coordinate acceleration, but it cannot increase your coordinate speed to infinity because you will either impact that gravitational body, or go into an elliptical orbit around it where your coordinate speed, acceleration, and direction or constantly changing, but if you are blind folded, you will feel like you are just floating stationary in space.
 
I don't think floating in space is identical to free fall.
In floating, none of the constituent parts of the body are feeling a net tug in any direction (except self gravitation).
In free fall the constituent parts are feeling different amounts of tug because the external gravitational field has a gradient.

Floating in space, a non-spinning sphere of point masses would decrease radius while maintaining a spherical shape.

In free fall the same sphere would take on an egg shaped surface as it shrunk (with the pointy end of the egg pointing toward the gravitational source).
 
bahamagreen said:
I don't think floating in space is identical to free fall.
In floating, none of the constituent parts of the body are feeling a net tug in any direction (except self gravitation).
In free fall the constituent parts are feeling different amounts of tug because the external gravitational field has a gradient.

Floating in space, a non-spinning sphere of point masses would decrease radius while maintaining a spherical shape.

In free fall the same sphere would take on an egg shaped surface as it shrunk (with the pointy end of the egg pointing toward the gravitational source).
Do you think this is something that a person would feel?
 
Not unless the gradient was quite strong. Neutron star, black hole... I've seen the word "spaghettification" used to describe the extreme effect, which a person would feel before being pulled apart...
 
bahamagreen said:
I don't think floating in space is identical to free fall.
In floating, none of the constituent parts of the body are feeling a net tug in any direction (except self gravitation).
In free fall the constituent parts are feeling different amounts of tug because the external gravitational field has a gradient.
This is correct, what you describe is called tidal forces. The equivalence principle equates freefall to a uniform gravitational field. Real gravitational fields are non-uniform, so there are tidal forces.

In GR, tidal effects are caused by the curvature of spacetime. For any curved manifold, if you take a small enough piece of the manifold it is approximately flat (to first order). Equivalently, for any real gravitational field if you take a small enough region of spacetime there is no difference between free fall and floating (to first order).
 
  • #10
DaleSpam said:
Real gravitational fields are non-uniform
Unless you build a uniform density sphere with a non-concentric spherical cavity.
 
  • #11
A.T. said:
Unless you build a uniform density sphere with a non-concentric spherical cavity.
OK, I should have said real gravitational fields are typically non-uniform.
 

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