Free Will & Relativity: A Thought Experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of relativity on concepts of time, free will, and simultaneity, prompted by a thought experiment involving an alien observing a football game from space. Participants explore the relationship between perception of time and events occurring simultaneously, as well as the philosophical implications of these ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is possible for an alien to observe a future event while a person on Earth is engaged in an activity, suggesting a potential conflict between perception and reality.
  • Another participant dismisses the premise of the thought experiment as nonsensical, attributing it to a misunderstanding of relativity and suggesting that a deeper mathematical understanding is necessary.
  • A different participant expresses skepticism about the value of popular science explanations, implying that they may lead to misconceptions about complex theories like string theory.
  • Another response emphasizes the importance of accurate explanations in relativity, recommending textbooks and resources for a better understanding of the subject.
  • One participant references Einstein's thought experiment on simultaneity as a foundational concept in understanding special relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the thought experiment and the interpretations of relativity. Some participants advocate for a more rigorous understanding of the concepts, while others challenge the initial premise and the popularization of these ideas.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of time and simultaneity in relativity, as well as differing opinions on the effectiveness of popular science communication. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the implications of the thought experiment.

CactusLand
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I watched a documentary by Brian Greene, "The Illusion of Time" a few weeks ago, and a question has been bothering me ever since. In the documentary he explains that an alien, traveling toward the earth, would see into our future. So here is my question.

The second half of a college football game is just getting underway, the score is 0-0, so there is about 1.5 hours left till the game finishes. I am in the stands, watching with a friend and put my beer to my lips, at the same moment, from space, an alien traveling at a high speed towards the Earth peers out of his super duper telescope and looks at the scoreboard, and sees the last second tick off the clock, and the final score, Notre Dame 7 - USC 3.

Questions:

1. Is it possible for the alien to look, and I to sip, simultaneously?

2. If we can act simultaneously, could the alien theoretically see the final score while I was still sipping my beer with 14:59 left in the 3rd quarter?

3. If 1 & 2 are possible, and leaving the multi-verse aside for the moment, is Notre Dame 7 - USC 3 the only possible outcome of the game?

4. Well, seems obvious...where is free will in all of this, or is it simply an illusion?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
 
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CactusLand said:
I watched a documentary by Brian Greene, "The Illusion of Time" a few weeks ago, and a question has been bothering me ever since. In the documentary he explains that an alien, traveling toward the earth, would see into our future.

That's essenially nonsense. Just Mr Greene trying to be clever.

If you would like to learn the basics of relativity you will need a little maths and some time and effort.
 
Is there some danger thinking about string theory for a good phycisist's mind or is it rather getting involved in writing popular-pseudoscience textbooks and TV-movie scripts? SCNR.
 
@CactusLand, as the previous two replies suggest, Brian Greene's popularizations are loathed and despised not especially well-regarded by those of us who value accurate layman-friendly explanations of this stuff. I don't think there is a better answer to your question than "Write off the hour you wasted on that documentary, spend some time trying to learn the real thing".

Special relativity is one of the most fun and fascinating pieces of human knowledge, and (unusual for much of modern physics) it can be understood with only high school math - the hard part is retraining your intuition to understand what the math is telling you. Get hold of a decent textbook, spend some time with it, come back here as soon as you get stuck and we will gladly talk you through the sticking points.

One of my personal favorites is Taylor and Wheeler's "Spacetime Physics". You might also try "Relativity for poets", by our own @bcrowell, and others will have their suggestions. As a standalone exercise, you could google for "Einstein train simultaneity" to see Einstein's classic thought experiment demonstrating the relativity of simultaneity - if you can understand that, the rest of special relativity proceeds logically.

In the meantime, we can close this thread. Start a new one as soon as you need us.
 
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