Friction Direction in lever with drum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the direction of friction forces in a lever system involving a rotating wheel. Participants explore the implications of Newton's Third Law and the concept of relative motion in determining the direction of friction in different scenarios, specifically in free body diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that friction acts opposite to the direction of motion, citing the counterclockwise rotation of the wheel and the corresponding direction of friction in one drawing.
  • Another participant suggests that relative motion between the wheel and the lever determines the direction of friction, stating that the lever moves to the right relative to the wheel.
  • Some participants question whether the direction of friction is solely a consequence of Newton's Third Law or if it also depends on the frame of reference.
  • There is a discussion about the significance of relative motion between surfaces in contact, with emphasis on how it affects the direction of friction forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of Newton's Third Law and the importance of the frame of reference in determining friction direction. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of analyzing friction direction based on relative motion and the interaction of forces, indicating that assumptions about the frame of reference may influence interpretations.

Lisciu
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Hi guys,

I trying to understand one thing that I don't know where came from. To visualize the problem I will used the drawings from book.

9ZDO4vV.jpg


The question is for direction of Force Fb on drawing (b) and (a). I was always learned that friction is acting on direct opposite to motion. In drawing (b) we have correct direction because the wheel rotate counterclockwise so friction must act to right side to stop the motion. But we going to free body diagram in (a) and we see that friction is acting on the same direction as motion...Could someone me explain like for child why actually this happen?
 
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Here 2 ways to say it:
(1) Relative to the wheel, the Lever is moving to the right. So the force Fb is indeed opposite to the motion
(2) When two bodies interact, the friction forces they exert on each other must be equal and opposite by Newton's Third Law
 
So basically it was because of the Third Law of Newton? It have nothing to do with the point of frame ? And it was established on the wheel because it was easy way to find the proper direction?
 
Lisciu said:
So basically it was because of the Third Law of Newton? It have nothing to do with the point of frame ? And it was established on the wheel because it was easy way to find the proper direction?
What matters is the direction of relative motion between the surfaces in contact. Since you agree that the wheel is rotating left with respect to the lever, the lever surface is moving to the right with respect to the wheel
 

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