How Does Friction Direction Change with Different Surfaces and Objects?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the direction of frictional forces in various scenarios involving contact between surfaces, particularly in systems at equilibrium. Participants explore how friction behaves differently depending on the configuration of objects, such as a beam resting on the edge of a block versus a beam on a slope.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to determine the direction of friction when a body is in contact with a surface, noting a specific case where friction appears to act along the beam rather than along the face of the block.
  • Another participant asserts that friction always opposes motion and is balanced by existing forces in the case of static friction.
  • Some participants express that while friction opposes motion, determining the specific line along which it acts in complex systems remains unclear.
  • A suggestion is made to visualize the system without friction to infer the direction of the frictional force, with one participant finding this approach helpful.
  • Discussion includes the idea that in idealized scenarios, such as with edges in contact, the actual contact surface may complicate the understanding of friction's direction.
  • Participants agree that the normal reaction force acts perpendicular to the contact surface, which is a consistent definition in the context of contact forces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of the normal force and its perpendicular nature to the contact surface. However, there remains disagreement and uncertainty regarding the specific direction of friction in complex systems, with no consensus reached on how to universally determine this direction.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the complexity of the system and the idealizations involved may affect the understanding of friction's behavior. There are unresolved aspects regarding how to apply the coefficient of friction in different scenarios and the implications of equilibrium on force components.

Big-Daddy
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When a body is held or rests in equilibrium in contact with a surface (e.g. a slope, the edge of a block etc.) how do we work out which direction the friction acts in? I'm used to the friction acting parallel to the surface i.e. slope but in one question I have, of a beam resting on the edge of a block, the friction seems to act along the beam (rather than along the face of the block). Why is this?
 
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Friction always opposes the motion; in the case of static friction it is in balance with the existing forces.
 
UltrafastPED said:
Friction always opposes the motion; in the case of static friction it is in balance with the existing forces.

But that doesn't answer the question of which line it will act along, in a complicated system.
I can't just take components because I need to know which force to equate to the coefficient of friction * normal reaction force and I need to know the direction of that force for this to work.
 
Big-Daddy said:
I'm used to the friction acting parallel to the surface i.e. slope but in one question I have, of a beam resting on the edge of a block, the friction seems to act along the beam (rather than along the face of the block). Why is this?

Why don't you actually who us this, i.e. provide a sketch? Your description is vague, and there is no way to answer this.

Try removing the friction, and see where you think the direction where the relevant part will move. The frictional force will then be in the opposite direction.

Zz.
 
Big-Daddy said:
But that doesn't answer the question of which line it will act along, in a complicated system.
I can't just take components because I need to know which force to equate to the coefficient of friction * normal reaction force and I need to know the direction of that force for this to work.

If everything is at rest and the system is in equilibrium, you know that the net force is zero. So write down all the forces that you do know about, divide them into x, y, and z components, and the frictional forces are contributing what's needed to cancel them out.
 
Big-Daddy said:
a beam resting on the edge of a block, the friction seems to act along the beam (rather than along the face of the block). Why is this?
In this case: If it would slide, would the contact point move along the beam, or along the face of the block?

In general: Idealizations like "edge" can get tricky, if you have two edges in contact. In reality of course there is always a small contact surface, and friction acts parallel to it.
 
ZapperZ said:
Try removing the friction, and see where you think the direction where the relevant part will move. The frictional force will then be in the opposite direction.

Thanks a lot! This suggestion seems to work well for me.

And the normal reaction force itself? That is always acting perpendicular to the point or area of contact, i.e. perpendicular to the surface?
 
Big-Daddy said:
Thanks a lot! This suggestion seems to work well for me.

And the normal reaction force itself? That is always acting perpendicular to the point or area of contact, i.e. perpendicular to the surface?

Yes.

When an object is in contact with a surface it is convenient (and usually meaningful) to separate the contact force into a component that is perpendicular to the surface and a component that is parallel to the surface. The component that is perpendicular is called the "normal force". In this context, "normal" simply means "perpendicular". So the normal force will always be perpendicular to the surface by definition.
 

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