Frictional force and Normal force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between frictional force and normal force, particularly in the context of a body sliding on a horizontal surface. Participants explore both empirical and theoretical aspects of this relationship, as well as its limitations and approximations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the frictional force is directly proportional to the normal force acting on a body, seeking proof for this relationship.
  • Others confirm that this is an empirical relationship, supported by various experiments.
  • One participant specifies that the local frictional force is proportional to local point pressure, which is defined as the normal force divided by the area of contact.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of first-order approximations in physics, suggesting that the relationship can be expressed as a power series and emphasizing that without normal force, there can be no friction.
  • It is noted that in specific cases, such as with tires, the coefficient of friction may decrease with increased load, indicating a complexity in the relationship that may not hold universally.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the empirical nature of the relationship between frictional force and normal force, but there are competing views regarding the nuances and limitations of this relationship, particularly in specific applications like tire performance.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations such as the dependence on definitions of friction and normal force, as well as the potential for variations in the relationship under different conditions, such as load sensitivity in tires.

manimaran1605
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when a body is slided or move in a horizontal floor, the Frictional force is directly proportional to the Normal force acting on the body. Is there is any proof (emperically or Theoretically)
 
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Yes. bundles of it, experimentwise.
 
It is an empirical relationship
 
To be specific, the local frictional force has been establish to be proportional to the local point pressure.

This point pressure, roughly equals N/A, where N is normal force, A is area, so that the frictional FORCE equals k*(N/A)*A=kN, for k constant of proportionality.
 
In fact, like most simple physics laws, it is a "first order" approximation. Any "reasonable" (analytic) function can be written as a power series, f(x)= a+ bx+ cx^2+ ... Obviously, if there were NO normal force holding object to surface, there is no friction so a= 0. Approximating the function by its linear approximation, f(x)= bx so f is proportional to x to the first order in x.
 
HallsofIvy said:
In fact, like most simple physics laws, it is a "first order" approximation.
In the case of tires, there's a load sensitivity factor, reducing the coefficient of friction as the load increases. Wiki artcile, although this is for static friction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_load_sensitivity
 

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