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Full body scans for US bound flights

  1. Dec 30, 2009 #1
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/30/airline.terror.schiphol/index.html" [Broken]

    Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport will start using full body scans for US bound flights. I remember seeing this technology in its early stages a few years ago and remember the privacy issues. I am glad to see it actually going into use. I think they should have it at all airports and use it at random, kind of like the pre-boarding searches. The people that are agaisnt it because of the privacy issues would be very unhappy if all the airports suddenly switched to this technology, the random searches would be a good starting point. I am all for every airport using it. I value my safety more than my privacy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 30, 2009 #2

    mheslep

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    It may be necessary, but I am not 'glad' that this is so.

    Keep up that policy for too long and we may end up loosing both.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  4. Dec 30, 2009 #3

    lisab

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    Great, so now underwear bombers know to fly out of Paris or London instead of Amsterdam :rolleyes:.
     
  5. Dec 30, 2009 #4
    True, I should have been more precise in my statement. I don't want this discussion to spin off into privacy issues related to the patriot act, etc. I just don't mind going through a full body scanner in an airport. It is clear that the explosives the terrorists are going to use will not be picked up by our current methods.
     
  6. Dec 30, 2009 #5

    jtbell

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    The ultimate solution: eliminate all carry-on baggage, make all airline passengers check in all their baggage and clothing, and fly in the nude. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Dec 30, 2009 #6

    lisab

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    ...because getting stuck in a middle seat between two fully-clothed large people isn't bad enough.
     
  8. Dec 30, 2009 #7

    Astronuc

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    That still leaves the possibility of using implanted or internal explosives.

    What we need is incorporeal transportation.

    As the Moody Blues sang "See with your mind, leave your body behind" (from Sun Is Still Shining, To Our Children's Children's Children) :biggrin:
     
  9. Dec 30, 2009 #8
    Will they scan children?
     
  10. Dec 30, 2009 #9
    Thats a good question. I'm assuming the answer is yes since it says all passengers will be scanned.
     
  11. Dec 30, 2009 #10

    Monique

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    .. in addition all passengers will be thoroughly padded down by security personnel. I find a body search more intrusive than a scan that is only judged by computer software.
     
  12. Dec 30, 2009 #11

    Astronuc

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    From the article

    mm-wave implier IR, i.e. thermal imaging, which perhaps is passive, as opposed to active/invasive scanning, e.g., x-ray or neutron radiography.
     
  13. Dec 30, 2009 #12

    Monique

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    I misread, the coming three weeks all passengers will be bodysearched (including the crotch, so be warned :smile:), after that everyone will go through the scan.
     
  14. Dec 30, 2009 #13

    Astronuc

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    I have nothing to hide! :biggrin:

    or nothing but hide. :rofl:
     
  15. Dec 30, 2009 #14

    Borek

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    Perhaps we should allow for separate planes for those that don't want to be scanned?
     
  16. Dec 30, 2009 #15

    f95toli

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    No, the systems are probably active (there is a radiation source). Most of them are based around far-IR (a few THz) so it is not really thermal imaging in the usual sense.
    And no, they will not detect explosives, it is basically a camera that can see through most fabrics but it is till possible to hide explosives.
    There are techniques for spectroscopy in the THz range that can detect the "fingerprint" of some explosives but they are still being developed and wont be ready for deployment for a number of years,
     
  17. Dec 30, 2009 #16
    depending on the agent, I may opt to go through security a few times just to be sure! :biggrin:
     
  18. Dec 30, 2009 #17

    Mech_Engineer

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    I'm not sure that a THz scan is any more intrusive from a privacy standpoint than X-ray scans of your luggage, or asking for your personal information when you buy the ticket, or randomly searching your luggage.

    So the agents see you "nude," do we really have to be so prude about it?
     
  19. Dec 30, 2009 #18
    I wouldn't want an agent looking at my 6 year old daughter or son!
     
  20. Dec 30, 2009 #19

    Mech_Engineer

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    Perhaps, but is that because you feel they are possible sex offenders or something? WHY don't you want an official looking at your child with a THz machine?

    I've actually flown through Schiphol, and more intrusive than these proposed body scans is the pre-boarding interview I had to go through where a security agent asks you questions about where you're coming from, where you're going, why you're going there, how long you plan to stay, etc. Granted this was a while ago (2004) but I couldn't help but feel like I had be careful about what I divulged to the agent...
     
  21. Dec 30, 2009 #20

    mheslep

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    How can thread on full body scans not involved privacy issues?
     
  22. Dec 30, 2009 #21

    mheslep

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    Of course it is

    I predict those mm wave photos will, for famous travellers, begin appearing on the web, a gross privacy violation. There is just too much lurid value placed on such to avoid it.

    For every grandmother subjected to this intrusive scan or disallowed a carry on or restricted from moving in the last hour of the flight, ten thousand young males from Nigeria or Arab young male travelling with no return ticket and no checked bags from the middle east should be body searched first, and then we can discuss prudishness about profiling.
     
  23. Dec 30, 2009 #22

    turbo

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    It's likely.

    Years back, I was on a flight out of Bangor and there was a young couple behind me with a baby in a carrier. They acted a bit flustered and rushed, hunting for "misplaced" boarding passes, etc, and passing the baby back and forth. The man had already gone through the metal detector and his wife passed the baby (in the carrier) to him so she could rummage through her purse. Luckily, the security lady manning the X-ray machine had enough brains to have seen a violation of procedure, and she insisted that the man take the baby out of the carrier and hand it back to his wife, who allowed it to be put through the X-ray. Suddenly, a supervisor appeared out of nowhere, and the lady had him look at the X-ray display - she didn't shield the screen very well and I had gotten around to where I could clearly see the shape of a gun. The man and woman went off with the supervisor and a couple of security guards, and soon after, they boarded the flight - I assumed they were air marshals, testing security.

    Babies, toddlers, etc can be very useful distractions.
     
  24. Dec 30, 2009 #23

    Monique

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    There are also lots of things that you can hide in diapers.

    I wonder how the scans react to jewelry and buttons/zippers? Will it cause the scans to be flagged for human inspection? (which would be pretty much the case for every person)
     
  25. Dec 30, 2009 #24
    this is (one reason) why I will NEVER fly anymore
    bio cards managed by the credit companies
    aircraft maintainence done "out of country"
    breaking of most professional unions.

    the "puffer" can detect not only explosives, hydrocarbons, narcotics, but ANYTHING you want to program into it. If you shoot fireworks off with your kids sunday nite, you will test positive monday morning, regardless of scrubbing.

    if the road don't get there, I ain't goin'
    (after 13 years of travel I actually have anxiety attacks on the plane now)
    what did me in was staring at a loose bolt on the wing in the slipstream for 3 1/2 hours then telling the crew and being told ok sir we'll fix it
    yea right....ya didn't even ask which bolt!!!

    dr
     
  26. Dec 30, 2009 #25

    mgb_phys

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    Will they start checking airside ground crew?
    So they do THz full body imaging of every passenger, take butter knives off pilots (and confiscate sharp pointy medals from generals)
    And yet they allow trucks from catering, fueling, freight companies to drive in with only a cursory check of an ID card.
     
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