Is Credit Card Roulette the Ultimate Dining Risk?

AI Thread Summary
A recent discussion centered around a game played in New York City where diners randomly select one person's credit card to pay the entire restaurant bill, often leading to humorous outcomes, especially with high tabs. Participants noted that in NYC, it's common for bills to reach $2,000 or more, particularly among Wall Street professionals who frequently dine at expensive establishments. This sparked a debate about the absurdity of such spending on food, with some arguing that it reflects a lack of financial sense, while others defended the right to spend money as one sees fit. The conversation also touched on the costs associated with dining out in NYC, including the high prices of food and drinks, and the tipping culture in upscale restaurants. Ultimately, while some found the game entertaining, others criticized it as a display of wealth and classlessness, suggesting it could alienate those who cannot afford to participate. The discussion highlighted differing perspectives on dining expenses and the social dynamics of spending in affluent circles.
gravenewworld
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Just did this in NYC with my friends this past weekend.

The game: You and your friends go out to dinner. At the end you collect everyone's credit card, put it into a napkin, and shake it up. You then ask the waitress/waiter to pull one credit card out. Who ever gets picked has to pay the entire bill. It provides a pretty good laugh for about 20 minutes when your friend gets smacked for an $800 restaurant bill. It's pretty easy to convince people to play too since most of the time probability says that you have a very good chance of winning.
 
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$800 restaurant bill?
 
Cyrus said:
$800 restaurant bill?

That's nothing in NYC. My friend who I was visiting works on Wall St. He and his co-workers regularly play this game with $2-3K restaurant tabs.
 
gravenewworld said:
That's nothing in NYC. My friend who I was visiting works on Wall St. He and his co-workers regularly play this game with $2-3K restaurant tabs.

There idiots wasting that kind of money on food. That's beyond absurd.
 
Cyrus said:
There idiots wasting that kind of money on food. That's beyond absurd.

Like they care when they are making 6-7 figs.
 
gravenewworld said:
Like they care when they are making 6-7 figs.

That doesn't make them any less stupid when it comes to spending their money. You do realize that if they ate out once a month (a low ball number), they are wasting 24 grand just on food a year (not including everyday meals).

I can take you to restaurants in Georgetown that don't cost half as much.


Something more interesting, IMO, is http://www.vanityfair.com/online/style/2008/10/naked-sushi.html" .

I had a take home mid term that weekend and couldn't go down to the club that was hosting this. I really wanted to go too...

http://travelblog.bcaa.com/wp-content/naked-food.jpg

I have to find when this comes back around DC.
 
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I'm sure it's usually a "business" dinner and company pays for it.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
I'm sure it's usually a "business" dinner and company pays for it.

Nah they use their own credit cards. That's what makes it more fun. It's still fun to do even if the tab isn't that expensive.
 
You can get a great chicken fried steak around here for $8 and I'll pay. Sheeeshhh... its just food.
 
  • #10
$800 on a restaurant bill? How many people were eating? Sheesh.

The girl looks a little raw for my taste, Cyrus.

Mmm. Chicken fried steak.

I wonder if somebody could make me steak fried chicken. I bet that would be delicious.
 
  • #11
AUMathTutor said:
$800 on a restaurant bill? How many people were eating? Sheesh.

The girl looks a little raw for my taste, Cyrus.

Mmm. Chicken fried steak.

I wonder if somebody could make me steak fried chicken. I bet that would be delicious.

7

A good Italian restaurant in NYC is easily $25-40 a plate. Throw in a couple of bottles of wine, appetizer, tax, and tip--the bill was easily over $100 a person. We didn't even go to a high end restaurant.
 
  • #12
Steak fried chicken. Hmmmm. Let me work on that recipe and I'll get back to you. Does sound delicious.
 
  • #13
gravenewworld said:
7

A good Italian restaurant in NYC is easily $25-40 a plate. Throw in a couple of bottles of wine, appetizer, tax, and tip--the bill was easily over $100 a person. We didn't even go to a high end restaurant.
Ok, let's do some math. $25 a plate for 7 people is $175. Assume everyone gets one appetizer that typically runs $10 each $245. We get 5 bottles of wine at $50 bucks each (This is a typical $20 bottle at a wine store. Restaurants double prices on all wines and beer): $495. Tip (15%), and tax (4.5%): $591

You are still WAY short ($200) of $800 my friend. And I've been very generous and fair in making up these numbers too. (I used prices form places I eat that have similar price points).

A $25 dollar a plate restaurant is a high end restaurant. Hell, that guy with that http://www.motorestaurant.com/" restaurant in Chicago is only $200 a person. $2k in NYC? As Eddie Murphy said to balky in Beverly Hills Cop III, "Get the F**** out of here" "No I cannot!"

 
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  • #14
I've been to a five star restaurant all of once, in Cinci (not counting any chains that may be considered five star). The plates were only about $20 average, the steaks ranged up to $40 tops I think.

I've been to fairly nice restaurants with a table of up to a dozen people and still never seen a bill top $500.

Cyrus said:
As Eddie Murphy said to balky in Beverly Hills Cop III, "Get the F**** out of here" "No I cannot!"
Thank you. I needed that.
 
  • #15
Cyrus said:
We get 5 bottles of wine at $50 bucks each (This is a typical $20 bottle at a wine store. Restaurants double prices on all wines and beer):

$50 bottle of wine is considered cheap, a lot of places will sell individual bottles for $200 or more...it's not because the wine is so much better, it's a status symbol to show that money is no object to you. This is how people in NY think.
 
  • #16
junglebeast said:
it's a status symbol to show that money is no object to you. This is how people in NY think.
This is how SOME people who happen to be YOUR friends think. That is fine, you have your own views, other people are allowed to think that spending $1k on a meal is not a good idea. I did a couple of time go to restaurants where you end up significantly above $100 per person. I do not think it is worth.
 
  • #17
I think 90% of America would agree that spending $1k on a single meal for under 20 people is, while possible on quite special occasions, not something that you every other day because it sounds fun.
 
  • #18
humanino said:
This is how SOME people who happen to be YOUR friends think. That is fine, you have your own views, other people are allowed to think that spending $1k on a meal is not a good idea. I did a couple of time go to restaurants where you end up significantly above $100 per person. I do not think it is worth.

I didn't say that my friends think this way...it's just that there are a lot of rich people in NY who do think this way, enough of them that restaurants exist to cater to them. I have a friend who waited tables in NY and he has gotten $800 TIPS from individual tables...
 
  • #19
AUMathTutor said:
I think 90% of America would agree that spending $1k on a single meal for under 20 people is, while possible on quite special occasions, not something that you every other day because it sounds fun.
$1000 for 20 people is $50 per person. That sounds pretty normal to me. The lamb rack I had last night was $25 for just the entree, never mind the drinks, appetizers and dessert.
 
  • #20
Cyrus said:
There idiots wasting that kind of money on food. That's beyond absurd.
Without knowing how many people there are in the party, you are going off half-cocked.
 
  • #21
DaveC426913 said:
Without knowing how many people there are in the party, you are going off half-cocked.

Ok, fair enough. How many people were there for them to spend $2k gravennewworld?
 
  • #22
Cyrus said:
Ok, fair enough. How many people were there for them to spend $2k gravennewworld?

And how long were they there? It is not hard to run up a bill if you're there for five hours.
 
  • #23
DaveC426913 said:
And how long were they there? It is not hard to run up a bill if you're there for five hours.

Five hours?...jeez that's one long dinner party.
 
  • #24
After reading that initial post, I knew this would turn into a debate about the cost of eating out and not about how fun that game would be. That restaurant must be making a 500%+ profit.
I have a friend who waited tables in NY and he has gotten $800 TIPS from individual tables...
Wow, I think I need to change careers.
And how long were they there? It is not hard to run up a bill if you're there for five hours.
Five hours? So you go in for lunch and stay till dinner?
 
  • #25
leroyjenkens said:
Five hours? So you go in for lunch and stay till dinner?
Show up. Have a drink and chat. Order. Have an appetizer, another drink, and chat some more. Soup and/or salad (possibly two separate phases). Entree. After dinner drink while considering dessert. Dessert and coffee. Another cup or two of coffee for after dinner conversation.
Three or four might be a bit more realistic though I have myself stayed at an all night cafe until they started serving breakfast on more than one occasion.
 
  • #26
Cyrus said:
Ok, fair enough. How many people were there for them to spend $2k gravennewworld?

I dunno. I wasn't there when they did it. I imagine there were probably 5 or 6 of them. I guarantee you they were probably ordering $300 bottles of wine. I've hung out with these Wall St. people before and have seen them easily drop $1000 a night at the clubs/bars in NYC. If you are going to get a table and bottle service at an exclusive club in NYC it is easily going to run you $500-1000 just to get the table and then you would have to pay for the liquor.


Ok, let's do some math. $25 a plate for 7 people is $175. Assume everyone gets one appetizer that typically runs $10 each $245. We get 5 bottles of wine at $50 bucks each (This is a typical $20 bottle at a wine store. Restaurants double prices on all wines and beer): $495. Tip (15%), and tax (4.5%): $591

You are still WAY short ($200) of $800 my friend. And I've been very generous and fair in making up these numbers too. (I used prices form places I eat that have similar price points).

A $25 dollar a plate restaurant is a high end restaurant. Hell, that guy with that insane restaurant in Chicago is only $200 a person. $2k in NYC? As Eddie Murphy said to balky in Beverly Hills Cop III, "Get the F**** out of here" "No I cannot!"

$25-40 plate, some people may get $25 a plate, some people may get $40 a plate, so average cost per plate was probably around $33 let's say. Times 7=$230

6 bottles of wine avg like you said $50=$300

Appetizers were more closer to $20, but we'll say $15 since some didn't cost $20. 7 x $15=$100


Tip automatic 18% w/ parties of 5 or more: $115

Tax: $25


$230+$300+$100+$115+$25=$770 which is close to $800

Some people also ordered mixed drinks too which pushed it even closer to $800. It's all the alcohol that significantly adds to the bill. The one guy at the table easily must have had a bottle and half of wine.



But why are we even talking about this? People are allowed to waste money how ever they want to. The original point: the game was pretty fun.
 
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  • #27
gravenewworld said:
The original point: the game was pretty fun.
Playing poker for items on the bill might be more fun.
"I'll see your appetizer and raise you a bottle of wine!"
Play regular but the point of losing your items would make it a sort of defacto lowball game.
 
  • #28
Slightly off-topic, but talking about multi-$1000 bills.
How do tips work out at expensive restaurants?

I go to my favorite local indian, most of the menu is <$10 so dinner for two and a dessert is a tip of around $5. But if I go out for my wedding anniversary somewhere that dinner + bottle of wine is nearer $100 = a tip of around $15.

So is the waiter in a fancy restaurant making 3x as much as a small restaurant?
There are more staff at the fancy restaurant (hence less tables/waiter) but not 3x as many.
Do staff at the fancier restaurants get only paid in tips - is this allowed?
Are there are union seniority rules - do all star waiters get the jobs at fancy restaurants?
 
  • #29
mgb_phys said:
Slightly off-topic, but talking about multi-$1000 bills.
How do tips work out at expensive restaurants?

I go to my favorite local indian, most of the menu is <$10 so dinner for two and a dessert is a tip of around $5. But if I go out for my wedding anniversary somewhere that dinner + bottle of wine is nearer $100 = a tip of around $15.

So is the waiter in a fancy restaurant making 3x as much as a small restaurant?
There are more staff at the fancy restaurant (hence less tables/waiter) but not 3x as many.
Do staff at the fancier restaurants get only paid in tips - is this allowed?
Are there are union seniority rules - do all star waiters get the jobs at fancy restaurants?
From what I have been told by people who work as wait staff those at nicer restaurants make a higher base pay and tend to make quite a bit more money in general. Some will even work only a few nights a week because that is all they need.
At nicer restaurants there is also a rather higher standard to adhere to. A friend of mine worked a sort of 'middle-of-the-road' restaurant and was expected to memorize the menu during training (not over a few months) and to know all of the specials on a daily basis. They also need to know how to 'properly' carry and serve the dishes, set the tables (which fork goes where ect), decant the wine, and which wines go with which meals. And of course they only hire wait staff with experience or otherwise promote from within.

There may be a slight difference in pay depending on tips though. Technically all tips are to be reported as taxable income and some restaurants will automatically reduce the wait staffs base pay for the evening (to a certain legally defined minimum) based on what tips they ought to expect from the amount of the checks at the tables they wait on regardless of the actual size of the tips.
 
  • #30
gravenewworld said:
I dunno. I wasn't there when they did it. I imagine there were probably 5 or 6 of them. I guarantee you they were probably ordering $300 bottles of wine. I've hung out with these Wall St. people before and have seen them easily drop $1000 a night at the clubs/bars in NYC. If you are going to get a table and bottle service at an exclusive club in NYC it is easily going to run you $500-1000 just to get the table and then you would have to pay for the liquor.

$25-40 plate, some people may get $25 a plate, some people may get $40 a plate, so average cost per plate was probably around $33 let's say. Times 7=$230

6 bottles of wine avg like you said $50=$300

Appetizers were more closer to $20, but we'll say $15 since some didn't cost $20. 7 x $15=$100Tip automatic 18% w/ parties of 5 or more: $115

Tax: $25$230+$300+$100+$115+$25=$770 which is close to $800

Some people also ordered mixed drinks too which pushed it even closer to $800. It's all the alcohol that significantly adds to the bill. The one guy at the table easily must have had a bottle and half of wine.
But why are we even talking about this? People are allowed to waste money how ever they want to. The original point: the game was pretty fun.

20 bucks for an appetizer?

 
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  • #31
When the Evo Child was training to be a waitress at that fancy restaurant, part of the training was for them to order a "typical dinner with drinks". The tab for two of them was close to $800. Of course this included one shot of cognac for Evo Child that cost $345.00. Yes, $345 for one shot. She gave me the receipt. I may still have it somewhere. Of course it was all free. They had to eat the food every day so they understood what it tasted like. Of course it was not every day that they got a rare liquor.
 
  • #32
gravenewworld said:
But why are we even talking about this? People are allowed to waste money how ever they want to. The original point: the game was pretty fun.

What's fun about getting shafted with an $800 bill? That doesn't sound fun at all...and I would feel bad for someone else, if it wasn't me.
 
  • #33
Cyrus said:
20 bucks for an appetizer?


The buffalo mozzarella, prosciutto, and bruschetta app. was $22 I believe. Some of the best mozzarella I have ever tasted outside of Italy.

What's fun about getting shafted with an $800 bill? That doesn't sound fun at all...and I would feel bad for someone else, if it wasn't me.

People who work on Wall St. who are young live in a whole different world. When you are 25 or 26 and making $300, 400, or even 500+ K a year, and have no debts, do you think they care about an $800 tab at a restaurant or even think twice about dropping $1500 a night at an exclusive club? This is privileged America. I think they are crazy too, but then again I don't live in NY or make anywhere near that kind of cash.
 
  • #34
gravenewworld said:
The buffalo mozzarella, prosciutto, and bruschetta app. was $22 I believe. Some of the best mozzarella I have ever tasted outside of Italy.

22 bucks for this:


http://www.johnnyjet.com/image/PicForNewsletterItaly2007MoioIMG_1716.JPG

:smile: "There's a sucker born every minute"
 
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  • #35
leroyjenkens said:
After reading that initial post, I knew this would turn into a debate about the cost of eating out and not about how fun that game would be. That restaurant must be making a 500%+ profit.

Wow, I think I need to change careers.

Five hours? So you go in for lunch and stay till dinner?
I was thinking more like go for wings & beer at 7, dinner's done by 9:30 and you sit around and drink till midnight.

Or go to Mandarin (30 of us) and spend the entire afternoon catching up.

OK, 5 hours is pretty long but 4 is not unheard of.
 
  • #36
Cyrus said:
:smile: "There's a sucker born every minute"
Rough childhood? :wink:

I wonder. Is there any way that you can be as clever as you need to be - without the rest of the world having to be idiots?
 
  • #37
Cyrus said:
22 bucks for this:




:smile: "There's a sucker born every minute"

And you know what they say about opinions...
 
  • #38
Best meal I ever had. Just the two of us. 5 courses, each one with a wine-pairing. Had amuse-bouche between courses. Everything was served by our personal waiter. Lasted 4 hours.

It was like a vacation for the senses without leaving the table. Totally forgot about the outside world. By the time we were done and came back to reality, it felt exactly like we'd been away for a weekend.

With the $60 tip, it came to $420. Worth every penny.
 
  • #39
I have been in restaurants with appetizers in the $40-$50 range based on ingredients, and with caviar in the $100+ range.
 
  • #40
DaveC426913 said:
Rough childhood? :wink:

I wonder. Is there any way that you can be as clever as you need to be - without the rest of the world having to be idiots?

Most of the people in the world are idiots. :smile:

My point is that there is a threshold where you're no longer paying for quality food. You're paying for quality food and getting your eyes gouged out in the process, which is stupid. For 2k, I want Iron Chef to make it for me live in under 45 mins. Todays special ingredient, endangered species!

BTW: It's called rationalization. When you spend that much money on one meal, of course you better tell yourself "hey, that was pretty good!".
 
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  • #41
DaveC426913 said:
Best meal I ever had. Just the two of us. 5 courses, each one with a wine-pairing. Had amuse-bouche between courses. Everything was served by our personal waiter. Lasted 4 hours.

It was like a vacation for the senses without leaving the table. Totally forgot about the outside world. By the time we were done and came back to reality, it felt exactly like we'd been away for a weekend.

With the $60 tip, it came to $420. Worth every penny.
Sounds awesome Dave.
 
  • #42
Cyrus said:
Most of the people in the world are idiots. :smile:
I don't know what to say to this except that you don't need to set the bar so low in order for you to be clever. Your claim says nothing factual about the world but it does reveal some things about you. :wink:
Cyrus said:
My point is that there is a threshold where you're no longer paying for quality food. You're paying for quality food and getting your eyes gouged out in the process, which is stupid.

but I don't get how you are able to make such a judgement without it being your money, your life or your values. Surely you recognize that there are some things that it is just nonsensical to have an opinion on.
 
  • #43
DaveC426913 said:
but I don't get how you are able to make such a judgement without it being your money, your life or your values. Surely you recognize that there are some things that it is just nonsensical to have an opinion on.

Huh? That doesn't make any sense. I've known people that have hundreds of millions of dollars that don't go around wasting a few grand on a single meal because they have some sense to them. There free to spend that kind of money on a meal if they want, that doesn't mean I will respect that choice or think they are smart for it.

If you want, we can settle this over a $800 meal though, (on you), of course. (Not in a naked sushi kind of way) :wink:
 
  • #44
Cyrus said:
Huh? That doesn't make any sense. I've known people that have hundreds of millions of dollars that don't go around wasting a few grand on a single meal because they have some sense to them. There free to spend that kind of money on a meal if they want, that doesn't mean I will respect that choice or think they are smart for it.
But it is a subjective thing. You call it waste. That would only be if it was your money. You call it sense. Surely you have the capacity to say 'huh. Different strokes for different folks.'
 
  • #45
DaveC426913 said:
But it is a subjective thing. You call it waste. That would only be if it was your money. You call it sense. Surely you have the capacity to say 'huh. Different strokes for different folks.'

I'm surprised you haven't given me any grief about me liking fashion. You're terrible at this game Dave. I'm being facetious.

Buy me some expensive food. Let's break $350 bread. :-p
 
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  • #46
Huh, you didn't take one bit of bait I threw down. You're a pro. I have to admire that. :smile:
 
  • #47
I mean, I could buy a $10,000 pencil sharpener and claim that it sharpens my pencils better than any other pencil sharpener ever could, and tell you that sharpening pencils is important to me and you can't have an opinion of it since it's my personal choice, but (and I may be wrong) I bet you'd still think it was a waste of money.
 
  • #48
AUMathTutor said:
I mean, I could buy a $10,000 pencil sharpener and claim that it sharpens my pencils better than any other pencil sharpener ever could, and tell you that sharpening pencils is important to me and you can't have an opinion of it since it's my personal choice, but (and I may be wrong) I bet you'd still think it was a waste of money.
Who are you refuting? Me or Cyrus?
 
  • #49
mgb_phys said:
I go to my favorite local indian, most of the menu is <$10 so dinner for two and a dessert is a tip of around $5. But if I go out for my wedding anniversary somewhere that dinner + bottle of wine is nearer $100 = a tip of around $15.

I prefer small restaurants run by a small single family (mostly immigrants) - just more friendly and humble IMO provided that their food is good.
 
  • #50
DaveC426913 said:
Who are you refuting? Me or Cyrus?

The tell-tale sign of a quality post is that you have no idea what they're talking to. Thanks.

Seriously, though, I guess if I were arguing with one of you, it would probably be with you. I know it's your money to do with as you like, but I can still think you're blowing your money.
 

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