Gender Specific Fears: Is Criticism or Failure Worse?

[zoobyshoe]

I have the TV babbling in the background as I peruse PF and my ear is caught by a guy on an infomercial who makes the following claim: a man's greatest fear (when undertaking a project) is fear of failure, and a woman's greatest fear is fear of criticism.

His success plan will teach you how to overcome these fears and end up a billionaire, but in the meantime I'm wondering if these thumbnail allegations of a difference between essential fears according to gender hold water.

If you're a guy is the prospect of failure worse than the prospect of being criticized? If you're a woman, is the prospect of being criticized worse than the prospect of failure?

 

[Kalimaa23]

It's a sweeping generalisation, but I think that on average a man will be more goal driven (hence the fear of failure), while a woman will be looking for acceptance and confirmation from her peers instead (hence fear of criticism).

Again, this are just broad trends I've observerd. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm trying to figure out how the two aren't interrelated from the start? Don't failure and criticism pretty much go hand in hand? If you're getting criticized, it's generally because you've done something wrong, not because you were a great success. And, if you fail, isn't someone going to come along and criticize you for it?

 

[arildno]

I'm trying to figure out how the two aren't interrelated from the start? Don't failure and criticism pretty much go hand in hand? If you're getting criticized, it's generally because you've done something wrong, not because you were a great success.

Typical American sentiment. We are not that nice over here in Norway !


(After all, a person with success probably has some personal flaws he wants to hide beneath his veneer of success (that's why he has worked so hard to attain it); our job is to uncover those flaws).

 

[Moonbear]

Typical American sentiment. We are not that nice over here in Norway !


(After all, a person with success probably has some personal flaws he wants to hide beneath his veneer of success (that's why he has worked so hard to attain it); our job is to uncover those flaws).

I suppose that being flawless myself, I never considered someone might be worried about criticism for flaws they are hiding.

 

[Rach3]

I love to sit down in front of the TV late at night at learn about the psychology of gender inequalities from an expert infomercial actor.

 

[arildno]

I suppose that being flawless myself, I never considered someone might be worried about criticism for flaws they are hiding.

A main flaw with many people is their lack of insight in themselves. They go blithely about believing themselves to be flawless, but we Norwegians know better.

 

[zoobyshoe]

So, Moonbear, your answer to the question "Is the prospect of being criticized worse than the prospect of failure?" is...?

Arildno and Rach, your answers to the question "Is the prospect of failure worse than the prospect of being criticized?" is...?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Fear of criticism? I may not put up with it but I certainly don't fear it.

Easily, fear of failure dominates when it means getting sued or destroying equipment. When it comes to less critical situations, again, fear of failure because I hate having to do something twice. So I see this as more a practical matter... though I doubt that "fear" is the correct word.

And my two cents worth as it pertains to the premise of this thread: The biggest reason that people never take a risk is not fear, it is laziness.

 

[NoTime]

Fear of criticism?
Don't think you would do any posting if you had that

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm a man, and I have a constructively mild fear both.

 

[zoobyshoe]

OK. Assuming NoTime is a guy (the odds favor that assumption at PF) then we have three guys pretty much agreeing failure is a worse prospect than criticism.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

The only fear I have as a man, that I know a woman does not share is having my genitals cut off/skewered/burned (including chemical burns)/hit and basically impacted in anyway with high impulse.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The only fear I have as a man, that I know a woman does not share is having my genitals cut off/skewered/burned (including chemical burns)/hit and basically impacted in anyway with high impulse.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[NoTime]

OK. Assuming NoTime is a guy (the odds favor that assumption at PF) then we have three guys pretty much agreeing failure is a worse prospect than criticism.

Yes, your assumption is correct

Failure? I call that experience
I just try to avoid being repetitive

 

[Pythagorean]

Yes, your assumption is correct

Failure? I call that experience
I just try to avoid being repetitive

I think for most people, both fears are actually pretty mild. I think there's actually clinical names for people who make too much of a fuss about their fears.

 

[Moonbear]

OK. Assuming NoTime is a guy (the odds favor that assumption at PF) then we have three guys pretty much agreeing failure is a worse prospect than criticism.

If the criticism isn't because you've failed, then sure. I'd rather take "friendly fire" to prevent failure than to screw up because I was too arrogant to listen to criticism from someone who was just trying to help.

I can't quite see how fear of failure is a bad thing though. Afterall, generally it is something one should try to avoid, and if you just run into everything head first without thinking about what you're about to do first because you don't care if you fail, then you're bound to fail a lot more than someone who stops to think first.

 

[NoTime]

If the criticism isn't because you've failed, then sure. I'd rather take "friendly fire" to prevent failure than to screw up because I was too arrogant to listen to criticism from someone who was just trying to help.

I can't quite see how fear of failure is a bad thing though. Afterall, generally it is something one should try to avoid, and if you just run into everything head first without thinking about what you're about to do first because you don't care if you fail, then you're bound to fail a lot more than someone who stops to think first.

Sure, you do what you can to avoid failure.
But, when you're going for something that hasn't been done before, then I would say it's inevitable.
Testing in a controlled environment is key to minimizing the impact.
Even then the real world, seems to have a knack for coughing up a hairball or two.

Criticism is fine as long as it's constructive.

 

[zoobyshoe]

If the criticism isn't because you've failed, then sure. I'd rather take "friendly fire" to prevent failure than to screw up because I was too arrogant to listen to criticism from someone who was just trying to help.

I can't quite see how fear of failure is a bad thing though. Afterall, generally it is something one should try to avoid, and if you just run into everything head first without thinking about what you're about to do first because you don't care if you fail, then you're bound to fail a lot more than someone who stops to think first.

I think the kind of criticism implied here is along the lines of "Oh, right! You're going to go into business for yourself! Good luck, sistah!"

The fear of failure under discussion is the crippling kind that makes a person give up before they start: "It's never going to succeed so why bother?"

 

[Pythagorean]

The fear of failure under discussion is the crippling kind that makes a person give up before they start: "It's never going to succeed so why bother?"

I'm one of those that believes you can do anything you put your mind to. The major obstruction of production for me is lethargy.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

Thanks for sharing!

No problem. As for failure, sure it'd be freakin' awesome to be a rich famous physicist that like unifies GR and QM. But as long as I have enough money to buy video games to play 24/7 I probably won't care if I fail or not. I do however take a lot of pride in my intellect and logic, losing something like that through a physical accident or something would devastate me.

~Gelsamel

Edit: On the topic of the fear of criticism I find ALOT of people doing this, especially online. Which I find extremely bizzare. Firstly people online have never seen you, nor heard you or in anyway have insight into who you are. Secondly criticism is good for personal developement, criticism which is false and you know is false is easily ignored. Despite this often you'll have people online go utterly balistic when someone criticises them, you'll see people deleting bad comments on their personal pages etc. simply because it's a bad comment. On Youtube for instance often people lock votes or delete people's posts simply because the post is against them. Is this a cause of low self esteem?

Edit2: I agree with Ivan, a lot of not doing something is due to laziness, I'm like the laziest person alive. When at home and extremely bored with nothing to do, I'd rather do NOTHING then do my homework, I'd rather be bored and do nothing then not be lazy for a while. It isn't as if my grades are encouraging me to do homeowork though.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The only fear I have as a man, that I know a woman does not share is having my genitals cut off/skewered/burned (including chemical burns)/hit and basically impacted in anyway with high impulse.

oh, I'd say there are a few million little girls in Africa who share your fear. (Just so you don't feel alone in this.)

 

[moose]

I know people who would rather work somewhere where they know nobody will intrude on them and nobody will try talking to them. They cannot stand it when they are working and someone asks them how they are doing or something. I am not really sure why... I know both males and females alike who are like this.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to say my fear...heh. I usually have a fear of failure, until I see that it is inevitable... Then I think "heh, this probably doesn't matter that much anyway". With regards to criticism, I try to follow the "what do you care what other people think" role. However, there have been a select few times that I have done exactly what my pre-edit post says.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I know people who would rather work somewhere where they know nobody will intrude on them and nobody will try talking to them. They cannot stand it when they are working and someone asks them how they are doing or something. I am not really sure why... I know both males and females alike who are like this.

This is probably fear of criticism. I'm like this about stuff before it's at a stage where it's presentable. I don't want people seeing, or prying into, projects that are still undeveloped and confused in my mind.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I can't quite see how fear of failure is a bad thing though.

It depends on what you have at risk.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

oh, I'd say there are a few million little girls in Africa who share your fear. (Just so you don't feel alone in this.)

Yay, I'm not alone(!)

Seriously though I didn't want to know that just as much as you didn't want to know about my fear. I guess we're even.

I'd have to say though I'd never not do something I wanted to do because of fear of something. Be it failure or criticism. How ever there are many things I won't (I don't even want to do) for fear of pain etc. Like trying to do a front flip off the floor when I don't know how, or jump off a bridge. Or do something which would have legal repercussions.

Yeh come to think of it I don't have many fears, afraid of being seriously wounded - maybe. And sure failing at something sucks, being hurt sucks etc. but I don't really have many fears of these things that stop me from doing things I want to do. At least not any that I can think of at the moment.

~Gelsamel

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Does anyone fear speaking in front of a crowd?

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

Does anyone fear speaking in front of a crowd?

I did, and probably still do a bit, especially if it's a topic I don't know about. And it's not even a logical fear. I know whenever I stand up in front of a class they're not going to a give a **** what I say, and I honestly don't care if they think I'm a good speaker or smart or not so my fear of that is very very irrational. But recently we had to do an oral presentation in which we got to choose the topic, I chose Nuclear Power and how über it is and it went really well I got an A. :D

~Gelsamel

 

[winterorchids]

I have to agree that laziness is the biggest problem for most people (including myself).

Aside from that, I would say that as a woman my fears are generally concerned with what others will think of me. If they are strangers I fear they will criticize or think less of me. If they are friends or family I fear I will disappoint them or not live up to their expectations of me. With people close to me I don't anticipate them openly criticizing me, but rather feel they'll be silently disappointed in me.

It's been *my* experience that women rely more heavily on the opinions of others than men do. Men fear what they see as a failure, women fear what they think others will see as a failure.

(Hope that made sense? I'm sleepy)

 

[Pythagorean]

Does anyone fear speaking in front of a crowd?

it depends. If you mean formally, yes (as in a communications class assignment, where it's expected of you to give a speech, or for some sort of functin where you get elected speaker.)

If I have something to say because I don't like a situation or I feel the need to preach or whatever, though, I will stand up and speak my mind. It has to be genuine, I guess.

 

[Moonbear]

It depends on what you have at risk.

I'd say the more at risk, the healthier it is to have a bit of fear of failure keeping you on your toes.

Of course, there's a difference between a mild, healthy fear that keeps you paying attention, and a crippling fear that stops you from doing anything at all, as someone else pointed out earlier.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have to agree that laziness is the biggest problem for most people (including myself).

Aside from that, I would say that as a woman my fears are generally concerned with what others will think of me. If they are strangers I fear they will criticize or think less of me. If they are friends or family I fear I will disappoint them or not live up to their expectations of me. With people close to me I don't anticipate them openly criticizing me, but rather feel they'll be silently disappointed in me.

It's been *my* experience that women rely more heavily on the opinions of others than men do. Men fear what they see as a failure, women fear what they think others will see as a failure.

(Hope that made sense? I'm sleepy)

Thanks for the post that's on topic.

The assertion in the infomercial made me prick up my ears because it seemed to explain a difference between the way guys talk to each other and the way women seem to talk to each other. Women are "nicer", much more delicate, and if anything like a confrontation arises, which is much less frequent than with guys, it's much more subtle.

If it's true that men are naturally preoccupied with fear of failure and women naturally preoccupied with fear of criticism, with each not realizing the other has a different overriding concern, it could easily lead to communication problems.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm trying to figure out how the two aren't interrelated from the start? Don't failure and criticism pretty much go hand in hand? If you're getting criticized, it's generally because you've done something wrong, not because you were a great success. And, if you fail, isn't someone going to come along and criticize you for it?

In my (admittedly narrow) experience, men tend to judge themselves whereas women tend to allow themselves to be judged by others. This is the difference between fear of failure (judgement by oneself) and fear of criticism (judgement by others). Men tend to have (or at least, express) more confidence in themselves.


The usual disclainers such as 'results not typical', YMMV, 'just because I observe it doesn't mean I like it', etc.

 

[TuviaDaCat]

i myself don't care much about other's criticism, only when they remind me of something i have already pointed to myself as a weakness.
so basicly, i don't care much for other's criticism, since I am already open with myself, so i think i know myself pretty good, so if there is something wrong, probably, i will be the first to know.

though I am not sure which sort of faliure are you people are talking about. if faliure is the diminish of self pride, then i care not, since I am not competitive with anyone(or atleast I am teaching myself not to be one, and it kinda works), so there is no pride to lose. i believe that it is better when one can define his own goals, than relying on other's(and being competitive means relying on other's condition in respect to your own)

though if it is the fear practical loss in taking a risk, then i do not know the answer, I am still young, so i didnt really have the chance to put that in test.

one thing i sure know, laziness drives me, i don't remember myself filled with innitiation to do something, like the motion law of aristotle, i tend to stop moving. I am kinda like a corpse. the funny thing is, i don't care =).
sometimes i think i could have been a great bedouin, just sitting on a carpet under a tent, smoking shishi(nargila, or however you americans call that device used for smoking through that pipe) all day, feeling the dry breeze of the desert, ahhhh, that could have been nice.

 

[Moonbear]

In my (admittedly narrow) experience, men tend to judge themselves whereas women tend to allow themselves to be judged by others. This is the difference between fear of failure (judgement by oneself) and fear of criticism (judgement by others). Men tend to have (or at least, express) more confidence in themselves.

That's not my experience at all. Most people I know are hardest on themselves...regardless of gender. The few people who aren't, generally are totally oblivious of their own weaknesses...or in denial...and then they also don't take criticism well at all either. I'm not sure they have a fear of criticism though; it seems more like they just are easily offended when someone is honest with them about their weaknesses. Again, I've seen that in both men and women.

 

[Moonbear]

Thanks for the post that's on topic.

Is it on topic because it agrees with the assumption in your original post? It seems all the posts are on topic, yet you picked out only one that's agreeing with your assertion to acknowledge as on topic. Seems like you're choosing to ignore criticism of the claim.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

That's not my experience at all. Most people I know are hardest on themselves...regardless of gender. The few people who aren't, generally are totally oblivious of their own weaknesses...or in denial...and then they also don't take criticism well at all either. I'm not sure they have a fear of criticism though; it seems more like they just are easily offended when someone is honest with them about their weaknesses. Again, I've seen that in both men and women.

Though there is a big difference I think between being hard or critical on yourself and having low self esteem. But I'm not exactly sure how to put the difference. For instance I personally know I'm not great at physical sports, I probably have a fairly critical and judging view of other people (for instance I'm extremely prejudicial of people who are 'emo' and I personally can't understand any logic that such a person puts forward to justify his stance etc.) and I'm definitely not good looking xD. I'm also extremely indecisive.

However dispite these self-criticisms which I know are true in the end I honestly don't care. I couldn't care less if people don't like my attitude because they can go to hell. Everynow and then when my Mum is stressed she claims I have a problem, usually an attitude problem (not caring about anything). She claims I can't "see" the problem but in actual fact I see it quite clearly but in the end I honestly don't care, if someone thinks I have a problem with my attitude it isn't a problem with me it's problem with them.

When people say "everyone has problems" they are referring to what they see as problems but for myself I'm fine how I am. Because of this I guess in some ways I don't strive to "improve" my 'bad attitude' (which obviously I don't consider bad), but that's because I'm fine with how my attitude is and people just have to understand that I don't care at all.

But despite self-criticising myself I am fairly narcissistic (probably partly because of not caring about anything, my looks, my 'attitude', any outiside criticisms) and pessimistic.

But again criticisms for me come back to perspective. Criticisms which are meant to stir like teasing etc. etc. or truthfull criticisms about certain aspects of myself which I deem fine but others don't (ie. attitude), would be 'ignored' (I'll still listen but they just won't stir any action in me) easily through not caring at all. However if I'm doing something on a game, or let's say in an experiment, or doing a job or something (assuming I get off my lazy ass) then of course it would stir action - unless of course I know it's wrong through experience or whatever.

It's hard to explain it, it's like an "I don't care about just about everything" attitude minus low-selfesteem, minus low-lifeappreciation and minus rebellion.

I'm weird haha


~Gelsamel

 

[TuviaDaCat]

i don't like you

btw, a problem you don't care about is not your problem. its what others think as a problem in you.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Is it on topic because it agrees with the assumption in your original post?

It's on topic because it addresses the issue of fear of criticism vs fear of failure as they may relate to gender. It doesn't veer off onto the subject of someones worst fear as a man or woman, or whether or not laziness is a more dominant problem than fear in getting a project started.

It seems all the posts are on topic, yet you picked out only one that's agreeing with your assertion to acknowledge as on topic.

I singled that post out for being on topic because it was the first one to get squarely BACK on topic after the wonderful foray into fear of castration.

Seems like you're choosing to ignore criticism of the claim.

Seems like I'm conducting an informal pole to see how the claim is confirmed or contradicted by PF posters experience.

Whether or not a certain amount of fear of failure is a good thing is completely irrelevant. The question is whether or not it's actually a male thing. Likewise, is fear of criticism authentically a more likely reaction for a woman.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

i don't like you

btw, a problem you don't care about is not your problem. its what others think as a problem in you.

I'm glad we agree.

I singled that post out for being on topic because it was the first one to get squarely BACK on topic after the wonderful foray into fear of castration.

'ey that was on the topic of gender specific fears . And I answered the question about my experience with the fear of failure*, it just lead onto other things.

~Gelsamel

*If you don't want to read back through my posts then it was just yes, failure over criticism but failure is just so minimal along with criticism it's really negligiable.

 

[Moonbear]

The question is whether or not it's actually a male thing. Likewise, is fear of criticism authentically a more likely reaction for a woman.

Then in case you missed my answer...NO, it's not. It's hype by someone trying to sell some get rich quick scheme to gullible people watching late night TV.

 

[Evo]

I'm not afraid of criticism, it just means that the person criticisizng doesn't have enough knowledge to understand that what I am doing is correct.

(off topic side note - Zoobie, the wooden HO you sent me is going to be added to my desk menagerie along with two reindeer, two cows, and a zebra. I'm thinking of dressing them in halloween costumes.)

 

[Artman]

So is a gay guy's worst fear that he will fail to be criticised?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Then in case you missed my answer...NO, it's not. It's hype by someone trying to sell some get rich quick scheme to gullible people watching late night TV.

The invitation of the OP is for people to post their own individual experience. As I said, it's an informal pole, the goal of which is to see if the assertion is born out or contradicted here among people who feel like responding. To the extent people speak for themselves saying "Yes, this holds true for me, personally," or "No, that doesn't hold true for me personally" then I, and anyone whose interested, have some small bits of data to ponder and compare with any future imput that might come our way about this. To the extent people assert answers they believe apply to their whole sex, and also to the other sex, it creates gratuitous tension in anyone else considering responding. I can imagine them thinking "Well, I can't share my own experience now because it contradicts someone who'se declared there is no such difference and they may want to start an argument about it."

 

[Artman]

I have to agree based on my own experience. I couldn't care less what others think about my projects. I sometimes wonder if they will fail, but not to the point I won't try.

My wife on the other hand frets over what others say, or her fear of what they think.

 

[NoTime]

Seems like I'm conducting an informal pole to see how the claim is confirmed or contradicted by PF posters experience.

I think posters in general are unlikely to exhibit either fear.
With the self selected sample your results will be skewed.

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think posters in general are unlikely to exhibit either fear.
With the self selected sample your results will be skewed.

This occurred to me after starting the thread. Anyone, man or woman, who worries about possible criticism when they consider undertaking a project, isn't likely to be comfortable volunteering that information about themselves on an open forum. It doesn't seem to apply equally to both fears. It seems to be less difficult to report fear of failure

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

I, personally, can have a strong, sharp reaction to some forms of criticism. However, that is an after-the-fact event different than what I'm asking about in the OP. In general, I don't dwell much on the thought of future criticism and am more likely, instead, to worry about finding out, after I'm well into a project it'll end up being impossible for me to successfully complete under the current circumstances.

 

[Artman]

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

You could be on to something. Things women fear do appear to be in grave danger. Just look at your average spider. Does the phrase "KILL IT!" sound familiar to anyone else?

 

[arildno]

So is a gay guy's worst fear that he will fail to be criticised?

Yes, that is an awful prospect for us.

How dreadful if our scandal-making efforts do not produce any shocks...

 

[Pythagorean]

...am more likely, instead, to worry about finding out, after I'm well into a project it'll end up being impossible for me to successfully complete under the current circumstances.

I admit this can be depressing, even if not frightening.