General relativity - covariant superconductivity, Meissner effect

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of modifications to the Proca Lagrangian in the context of superconductivity, particularly focusing on the laws of motion for photons within a superconductor and the implications of the Meissner effect. Participants are seeking to identify an additional operator to include in the Proca Lagrangian and how this relates to the electromagnetic gauge symmetry and the Higgs mechanism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant is working on a project to find an extra operator to include in the Proca Lagrangian, aiming to derive the laws of motion for photons using the Euler-Lagrange equation.
  • Another participant suggests that the electromagnetic gauge symmetry is "Higgsed" in superconductors, leading to a mass for the photon via the Anderson-Higgs mechanism, and references the historical context of this discovery.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the connection between superconductivity and the modifications to the Lagrangian, questioning the purpose of the additional term sought by the original poster.
  • References to external sources, including works by Weinberg and the Feynman Lectures, are provided to assist in understanding the relativistic formulation of superconductivity and the derivation of the laws of motion.
  • There is a suggestion that the Proca Lagrangian already contains an extra term compared to the Maxwell Lagrangian, leading to confusion about the need for further modifications.
  • Participants discuss the need to clarify the characteristics being sought for the photons in a superconductor and the approach to modifying the Proca Lagrangian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of superconductivity to the modifications of the Proca Lagrangian, and there is no consensus on the specific characteristics or additional terms that should be included. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to find the extra operator and its implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the exact purpose of the additional operator and how it relates to the laws of motion for photons in superconductors. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the theoretical background and the specific goals of the project.

Maniac_XOX
Messages
86
Reaction score
5
I am doing a project where the final scope is to find an extra operator to include in the proca lagrangian. When finding the new version of this lagrangian i'll be able to use the Euler-Lagrange equation to find the laws of motion for a photon accounting for that particular extra operator. I have no idea how to approach this though. I assume it is a similar process to finding the mass operator which turned the lagrangian from maxwell's to proca's, but how is this done? Any help is appreciated :)

As for now i have only derived the laws of motions starting from a) Maxwell's lagrangian and b) Proca lagrangian. Step c) would comprise finding a lagrangian with an extra operator to repeat the process.
Any links to useful external sources is appreciated as well, thank you.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm not sure, whether I understand your question right, but if it is about superconductivity, you are (nearly) on the right track, because from an effective-field theory point of view in a superconducting material the electromagnetic gauge symmetry is "Higgsed", i.e., the photon get massive via the Anderson-Higgs mechanism, which is mostly known in the context of the electroweak sector of the Standard Model, but in fact the Higgs mechanism was first discovered by Anderson in the context of superconductivity.

For a relativistic formulation of superconductivity, see

https://www.springer.com/de/book/9783319079462
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Maniac_XOX
vanhees71 said:
I'm not sure, whether I understand your question right, but if it is about superconductivity, you are (nearly) on the right track, because from an effective-field theory point of view in a superconducting material the electromagnetic gauge symmetry is "Higgsed", i.e., the photon get massive via the Anderson-Higgs mechanism, which is mostly known in the context of the electroweak sector of the Standard Model, but in fact the Higgs mechanism was first discovered by Anderson in the context of superconductivity.

For a relativistic formulation of superconductivity, see

https://www.springer.com/de/book/9783319079462
Basically, I've been made to practice with covariant classical field theory to derive the laws of motion from a maxwell's lagrangian using the euler-lagrange equation, and then from proca lagrangian accounting for the mass term. The scope now is to find an extra operator which modifies the lagrangian to a new form and having to find the laws of motion for that. Where do I start? I was thinking if I know how to derive the mass operator that modifed the maxwell lagrangian into the proca lagrangian then i would have the basis set. I suppose in fewer words the question is: how do i modify the proca lagrangian to account for an extra term?
 
What do you want to achieve? If it's superconductivity, you need to "Higgs" the em. local gauge invariance. Another very good reference is by Weinberg:

https://inspirehep.net/literature/18067

The KEK preprint is freely accessible.
 
Maniac_XOX said:
As for now i have only derived the laws of motions starting from a) Maxwell's lagrangian and b) Proca lagrangian. Step c) would comprise finding a lagrangian with an extra operator to repeat the process.
First, the Proca Lagrangian already contains an extra term in comparison to the Maxwell Lagrangian. It seems that you want an additional extra term, but it's not clear what is its purpose.
Second, it's not clear what superconductivity has to do with all this.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Demystifier said:
First, the Proca Lagrangian already contains an extra term in comparison to the Maxwell Lagrangian. It seems that you want an additional extra term, but it's not clear what is its purpose.
Second, it's not clear what superconductivity has to do with all this.
Superconductivity is the subject, i am studying meissner effect at low temperatures but specifically the photons laws of motion within the superconductor and we're doing this using the em field and potentials. The additional term is to find what other characteristics apply to the photons when in a superconductor, i was not told specifically how to approach it or what characteristics i am looking for as that was the question i needed to answer myself
 
vanhees71 said:
What do you want to achieve? If it's superconductivity, you need to "Higgs" the em. local gauge invariance. Another very good reference is by Weinberg:

https://inspirehep.net/literature/18067

The KEK preprint is freely accessible.
That i don't even know yet lol, i was only told to use the same process to find another operator besides the mass term, the proca lagrangian has the local gauge invariance included so i suppose it would be smarter to start from that
 
In electrodynamics there's no mass term for the photons of course, but you get one in superconductors from the Higgs mechanism. I really recommend Weinberg's paper quoted above. There's also a section with the same content in his Quantum Theory of Fields vol. 2.

A simpler version, using the non-relativistic Schrödinger equation is found in the Feynman Lectures vol 3:

https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/III_21.html
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K