A Generalising the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on generalizing the Euler-Lagrange equation for scalar fields with higher-order derivatives in the action. The new variation of the Lagrangian includes an additional term related to second derivatives, which complicates the derivation. It is established that the fourth term in the variation does not vanish and must be included in the new Euler-Lagrange equation, while the first three terms become boundary terms and can be neglected under certain assumptions. The participants debate the physical implications of assuming that variations of the field and its derivatives vanish at spatial and temporal infinity, ultimately agreeing that such assumptions are reasonable to avoid unphysical scenarios. The conversation highlights the complexity introduced by higher-order derivatives in field theory.
spaghetti3451
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
31
The Euler-Lagrange equation obtained from the action ##S=\int\ d^{4}x\ \mathcal{L}(\phi,\partial_{\mu}\phi)## is ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\phi}-\partial_{\mu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\phi)}\big)=0##.

My goal is to generalise the Euler-Lagrange equation for the action ##S=\int\ d^{4}x\ \mathcal{L}(\phi,\partial_{\mu}\phi, \partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##.

The variation of the Lagrangian density this time contains the extra term ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##. Now,

##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)##

##=\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]-\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big]\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)##

##=\partial_{\mu}\Big[\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta\phi\big)-\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\big)\delta\phi\Big]-\Big[\partial_{\nu}\Big(\partial_{\mu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\big)\delta\phi\Big)-\partial_{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\Big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big)\delta\phi\Big]##

Now, in the fourth term, ##\partial_{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\Big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\Big)=0## for arbitrary ##\delta\phi## - this is the new term in the Euler-Lagrange equation.

The second and third terms must give zero, by Gauss' theorem and under the assumption that the field vanishes at spatial or temporal infinity.

What do I do about the first term? Should I have to introduce a constraint on the derivative ##\partial_{\nu}\big(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\delta\phi\big)## - I don't want to, because it's not physical.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You don't do anything about the first term. It becomes part of the new Euler-Lagrange equations. Every time you make the Lagrangian depend on a higher order derivative, the Euler-Lagrange equations increase in order.
 
Well, at least I need to factor out ##\delta\phi## from the first term ##\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]##, don't I?

Could you suggest a way in which this could be done?
 
failexam said:
Could you suggest a way in which this could be done?
Sorry I got it wrong, the first term doesn't remain. The fourth one does, since it is the only term that does not go away with integration by parts. The first three terms are boundary terms, since they are integrals of a divergence.
 
Hmm...

Well, if I integrate the term ##\partial_{\mu}\Big[\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)\Big]## by parts, then the boundary term is ##\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_{\mu}\partial_{\nu}\phi)}\partial_{\nu}(\delta\phi)##, but to set this boundary term to zero, I need to assume that ##\delta(\partial_{\nu}\phi)## is zero at temporal and spatial infinity. Isn't this a little unphysical?
 
Let us make the usual assumption that ##\delta \phi## vanishes at infinity. That means ##\delta \phi## gets closer and closer to ##0## as the point in question gets closer and closer to infinity (this can be easily formulated more rigorously). Now, I do believe there is an extra assumption that ##\partial_\nu(\delta\phi)## also converges to ##0## as you go to infinity. This assumption actually seems very reasonable to me, because otherwise you would have a field that is rapidly oscillating as you go to infinity.
 
Hmm...

Would you also expect all the higher-order derivatives of the field to vanish at the boundary?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top