Generate heat conduction curves at different time steps

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around generating heat conduction curves for a scenario involving a molten material at high temperature (900 K) placed on a cooler surface (300 K). Participants explore a 1-D heat conduction model to illustrate the temperature profile over various time intervals, considering factors such as thermal conductivity and diffusivity. The context includes a practical application related to a machine failure in a factory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks advice on generating heat conduction curves and questions if the provided information is sufficient for modeling.
  • Another participant inquires about the thickness of the slabs and whether there is heat transfer resistance at the contact plane.
  • A participant mentions the need for a simplistic approach due to the lack of information on the thickness of the substratum and molten material.
  • It is suggested that the surface temperature could be assumed constant at 900 K for simplification, and the subsurface treated as a semi-infinite slab.
  • A mathematical expression involving the complementary error function is shared, indicating a potential method for calculating temperature profiles.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of implementing a dynamic temperature for the molten mass to account for cooling at the interface with the substratum.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the realism of assuming a constant temperature for the molten mass and suggests adjusting the temperature dynamically to reflect thermal decay.
  • A participant proposes neglecting the heat of solidification and discusses how varying surface temperature could affect heat flux and temperature at depth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions that can be made regarding the thickness of materials and the behavior of the molten mass over time. There is no consensus on the best approach to model the situation, and multiple competing views remain regarding the simplifications and assumptions necessary for the analysis.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific information about the thickness of the molten material and substratum, as well as the dynamic behavior of the molten mass over time. The discussion also highlights the dependence on assumptions regarding the thermal properties and conditions of the materials involved.

SimoneSk
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Dear all,
I am having some difficulties in generating some heat conduction curves.
My problem is:
I have an object at a temperature (Th) of 900 K placed on top of a surface with a temperature (Ta) of 300 K (see Figure). The thermal conductivity (K; W M-1 K-1) is 1.5 whilst the thermal diffusivity (a; m2 s-1) is 7e-07.
I would like to apply a 1-D heat conduction model that would show the temperature profile with depth after 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 12 hours, 1 day, 2 days, 10 days, and 365 days.
The output would ideally look something like:
Untitled.png

Would you kindly be able to suggest what approach best applies to my problem? Are the information provided sufficient to solve the problem?
Thanks a lot in advance!
 
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The two objects are flat infinitely wide slabs? What are the thicknesses (or, are they semi-infinite)? Is there any heat transfer resistance at the contact plane?
 
Hi, thanks a lot for getting back.
Unfortunatelly, I am not able to provide unique answers to your questions. The thing is, I need to apply a "simplistic" approach to calculate the heating of the substratum with time to solve for this scenario:
In a factory, a machine failure caused a spill of molten material (at ~ 900 K), this molten mass moves and burries the cold ground, the latter being at ~300 K. I can use "realistic" values both for thermal conductivity and diffusivity (hence 1.5 and 7e-07, respectively). The aim, is to provide a series of curves to estimate the temperature of the substratum after the time intervals specified in the question.

The problem is i do not know the thickness of the substratum, nor that of the molten component. Considering the lack of information, can the problem be simplified somehow?

Once again, thanks a lot for your help
 
SimoneSk said:
Hi, thanks a lot for getting back.
Unfortunatelly, I am not able to provide unique answers to your questions. The thing is, I need to apply a "simplistic" approach to calculate the heating of the substratum with time to solve for this scenario:
In a factory, a machine failure caused a spill of molten material (at ~ 900 K), this molten mass moves and burries the cold ground, the latter being at ~300 K. I can use "realistic" values both for thermal conductivity and diffusivity (hence 1.5 and 7e-07, respectively). The aim, is to provide a series of curves to estimate the temperature of the substratum after the time intervals specified in the question.

The problem is i do not know the thickness of the substratum, nor that of the molten component. Considering the lack of information, can the problem be simplified somehow?

Once again, thanks a lot for your help
As a worst case, you can assume that the surface stays at 900 K the entire time. You can treat the subsurface as a semi-infinite slab if the penetration depth of the heat is small compared to the depth of the earth's crust. Do you know how to estimate the penetration depth of the heat into a semi-infinite slab?

Google "heat transfer to a semi-infinite slab." The temperature profile is a complementary error function.
 
Thanks a lot for gettin back. I previously used

(θ-θ_Ta)/(θ-θ_Th ) = erfc(z/(2√αt))

= θ_Ta + (θ_Th - θ_Ta) erfc(z/(2√αt))
As given by Turcotte and Schubert in Geodynamics?

If this is what you suggest, then I was proably close to an "acceptable" solution.

To make it more realistic, would it be possible to implement a dynamic temperature for Th, this representing the temperature of the molten mass cooling down at the interface with the substratum?
 
SimoneSk said:
Thanks a lot for gettin back. I previously used

(θ-θ_Ta)/(θ-θ_Th ) = erfc(z/(2√αt))

= θ_Ta + (θ_Th - θ_Ta) erfc(z/(2√αt))
As given by Turcotte and Schubert in Geodynamics?

If this is what you suggest, then I was proably close to an "acceptable" solution.

To make it more realistic, would it be possible to implement a dynamic temperature for Th, this representing the temperature of the molten mass cooling down at the interface with the substratum?
Yes, if we know more details of the molten material, such as if it is continually flowing, if it solidifies, its thickness, its thermal properties, etc.

Please use the LaTex equation editor, in the LaTex guide at the bottom left corner of the frame.
 
Hi @Chestermiller , I tried to work my head around it. So, If I plot the vertical temperature profiles from 0.25 to 100 yrs using the parameters labelled in figure, all I get is that the substratum heats up, at higher depth, with time. This is certainly related to the temperature of the contact mass being held constant at 1200 K.

untitled1.png


Realistically speaking, this is far from realistic if the molten mass is emplaced, stagnant, and is undergoing cooling.

So, given the above rationale, if we assume that a stagnant body of molten material, this covering an area of 1 squared meter at 1200K, is it possible to adjust $$ \theta_s $$ dynamically to account for the thermal decay at the boundary? If so, how can that be achieved?

Thanks a lot in advance!
 

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Do you want to neglect the heat of solidification and assume that a layer of molten material of thickness h is laid down on the surface at time zero?

Your complementary error function is such that, if the temperature at the surface is changed suddenly from T0 to T1, and then held at that value for all times, the heat flux at the surface is $$q=\frac{k(T_1-T_0)}{\sqrt{\pi \alpha t}}$$Because of the linearity of the equations with respect to t, this implies that, if the temperature at the surface varies with time as T(t), the heat flux at the surface will vary with time according to $$q(t)=\int_0^t{\frac{T'(t-\tau)}{\sqrt{\pi \alpha \tau}}d\tau}$$where ##\tau## is a dummy variable of integration and T' is the time derivative of T at the surface. Analogous "convolution integrals" can be written for the temperatures at depth.
 

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