COVID Get Vaccinated Against the Covid Delta Variant

[bhobba]

since when was I a psychiatrist?

My bad. I thought you mentioned you were.

Sorry.

Thanks
Bill

 

[StevieTNZ]

My bad. I thought you mentioned you were.

Sorry.

Thanks
Bill

I wish I was - and probably could pass as one, given the knowledge I've gained from reading books on the subject, as well as being "in the system" for so long. BIG BUCKS THEY EARN :P

 

[StevieTNZ]

And then there are people like this guy, unbelievable.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-hospitalized-covid-19-told-160432588.html

Their agenda is to possibly save your life. HELL NO! Ain't NO ONE going to save my LIFE! I'll save my OWN life or I'll die!

Sadly there are idiots like that out there. In fact, a friend of mine on facebook from Brisbane said he took 99% of the ingredients out of the vaccine - and what was left? Baby blood. He's too religious for me.

 

[atyy]

Sadly their are idiots like that out there. In fact, a friend of mine on facebook from Brisbane said he took 99% of the ingredients out of the vaccine - and what was left? Baby blood. He's too religious for me.

Could it be referring to the use of cell lines from aborted fetuses in the development of some vaccines, and in the production of others?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/joh...ious-dilemma-morality-fetal/story?id=76204922
"While Pfizer and Moderna used these cells during preliminary laboratory testing months ago, Johnson & Johnson's vaccine uses the cells as part of its existing manufacturing process -- raising especial "moral concerns," conservative leaders told ABC News.

"If one can choose among equally safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines, the vaccine with the least connection to abortion-derived cell lines should be chosen," Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades, chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Committee on Doctrine, and Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann, chairman of the USCCB's Committee on Pro-Life Activities, said in a joint statement Tuesday night. "Therefore, if one has the ability to choose a vaccine, Pfizer or Moderna's vaccines should be chosen over Johnson & Johnson's.""

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55409693
""All vaccinations recognised as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience with the certain knowledge that the use of such vaccines does not constitute formal co-operation with the abortion from which the cells used in production of the vaccines derive," the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith announced in a statement on Monday.

The text, which was approved by Pope Francis, also said there was "a moral imperative" to ensure that poorer countries received access to effective vaccines."

 

[StevieTNZ]

Could it be referring to the use of cell lines from aborted fetuses in the development of some vaccines, and in the production of others?

He's completely anti-vaccine and I think doesn't even believe Covid-19 is real. I want to comment on his posts but I won't.

 

[artis]

From what I read I believe that fetal cells are used because they are "new" and haven't divided yet beyond the usable limit and are best suited for growing human infecting viruses?
The thing I don't know is how many are needed to produce such a vast amount of vaccines given the virus has to be grown constantly otherwise it would run out of virus?Anyway @Evo and @StevieTNZ I too have come across quite a lot of crazy folks in my life especially recently (mainly because recently due to Covid etc they have come out of hiding) but there is a part of me that understands them. I mean today we live in a very polarized environment politically and socially as well as we have so much information coming to us from all sides it can essentially be called "information short circuit"

I believe that it is simply because not all people have the time and capacity to process all this information to arrive at some generally sound conclusions. Like I myself had the time and willingness to think about all of this and from what it seems I am almost certain the Chinese screwed up their bat research gain of function stuff in Wuhan and the virus although having a natural origin is "spiced up" and so was able to take off from day one like a jet from a runway (unlike the previous SARS and MERS) and pretty much any other virus but that doesn't make me go crazy and refuse all medicine alltogether. Once the harm is done we need to find ways out of this. One way , especially for those older and weaker is the vaccine.

I don't know whether this makes me part of the conspiracy world but in this case I am quite alarmed and angry that if the lab theory is correct it seems China and it's dangerous regime will get away with it. Given the circumstances the least they should have done was to allow a complete and thorough access to both Wuhan (lab , etc) and elsewhere. Although I guess chasing a virus origin is like chasing the wind somewhat. Unless someone comes forward and admits (if there is anything to admit) we will never know. Anyway I am going off topic here so pardon me

 

[pinball1970]

I don't know whether this makes me part of the conspiracy world but in this case I am quite alarmed and angry that if the lab theory is correct it seems China and it's dangerous regime will get away with it. Given the circumstances the least they should have done was to allow a complete and thorough access to both Wuhan (lab , etc) and elsewhere. Although I guess chasing a virus origin is like chasing the wind somewhat. Unless someone comes forward and admits (if there is anything to admit) we will never know. Anyway I am going off topic here so pardon me

We know this can and has happened naturally way before genetics and biotechnology was a thing.
It does not change where we are either way.
For the UK we may have DELTA beat. Restrictions lifted on Monday and prior to this most places were open.
Vaccine uptake trailing off to a low of 18,000 in one day (400,000 per day in March) They are now offering to 12-17 year olds.
Cases going through the roof in June to a high of 54,000 cases in a day but it looks that has changed.
Consecutive days of decreasing numbers and we have dropped to 33,000. The numbers always yo-yo before and after the weekend but this was Thurs drop and again Friday.
Perok hinted similar and he is London based.
Am I being premature? @PeroK

 

[atyy]

From what I read I believe that fetal cells are used because they are "new" and haven't divided yet beyond the usable limit and are best suited for growing human infecting viruses?
The thing I don't know is how many are needed to produce such a vast amount of vaccines given the virus has to be grown constantly otherwise it would run out of virus?

From this news report, it seems the cells are used simply because they are by now standard in research, and their properties well understood. In fact, the HEK293 cells are so standard that I have read about them in countless research papers since I was an undergraduate more than 20 years ago (at which time they were already standard), and although I should have realized it (because HEK stands for "human embryonic kidney"), I didn't know till this very moment that they were from an aborted fetus.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...accine-ethical-religious-foetal-cell/12592800

Off topic, but there are completely different ethical problems (in part related to racial discrimination) with another standard cell line HeLa.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02494-z
Henrietta Lacks: science must right a historical wrong

I believe that it is simply because not all people have the time and capacity to process all this information to arrive at some generally sound conclusions. Like I myself had the time and willingness to think about all of this and from what it seems I am almost certain the Chinese screwed up their bat research gain of function stuff in Wuhan and the virus although having a natural origin is "spiced up" and so was able to take off from day one like a jet from a runway (unlike the previous SARS and MERS) and pretty much any other virus but that doesn't make me go crazy and refuse all medicine alltogether. Once the harm is done we need to find ways out of this. One way , especially for those older and weaker is the vaccine.

SARS-CoV-2 could not have arisen from anything resembling the known so-called "gain-of-function" (using the term in a loose and broad sense, not in the technical sense relevant for the NIH funding pause) work at the institute (which has been published). That research used viruses that have only 80% similarity to SARS-CoV-2. It is conceivable that they had other gain-of-function research going on, but they have said that all their "live" viruses (a pre-requisite for gain-of-function) have only about 80% similarity to SARS-CoV-2. Although it cannot be ruled out that they are lying, what they say makes sense. Their gain-of-function experiments are based on Sars-1, which has only about 80% similarity to SARS-CoV-2.
Christian Drosten, a German virologist, has explained it with an analogy. https://www.republik.ch/2021/06/05/herr-drosten-woher-kam-dieses-virus: "Let me explain it with a picture: To check, for example, whether adjustments make the virus more contagious, I would take an existing system, incorporate the change and then compare it with the old system. If I want to know whether a new car radio improves the sound, I take an existing car and replace the radio there. Then I compare. I'm not building a completely new car for it. But that's exactly how it was with Sars-2: The whole car is different."

I don't know whether this makes me part of the conspiracy world but in this case I am quite alarmed and angry that if the lab theory is correct it seems China and it's dangerous regime will get away with it. Given the circumstances the least they should have done was to allow a complete and thorough access to both Wuhan (lab , etc) and elsewhere. Although I guess chasing a virus origin is like chasing the wind somewhat. Unless someone comes forward and admits (if there is anything to admit) we will never know. Anyway I am going off topic here so pardon me

Shi Zhengli, the relevant Principal Investigator at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, has reported the results of active investigations into the possibility of a lab leak, and these constitute evidence against a leak (including accidental release of a natural virus from a sample they collected), meaning a lab leak is extremely unlikely.

1) All of her staff had blood drawn in March 2020. These blood samples were tested for antibodies, and the results were negative for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.

2) A search through all of her bat samples for sequences turned up no sequence closer than RaTG13, which at 96% similarity is about 30 years or more in natural evolution from SARS-CoV-2, and even if hastened by lab-evolution is extremely unlikely to be a source of SARS-CoV-2. They have published the full sequence of RaTG13. Their "live" viruses (the most likely sources of any leaks) have only about 80% similarity to SARS-CoV-2.

The above 2 results mean a lab leak is extremely unlikely. They do not rule it out only because no tests are 100%. But they do mean that assigning a considerably higher plausibility to the lab leak theory than the WHO report must be based on unfounded accusations that Shi Zhengli and her colleagues are lying.

However, if you take the trouble to read her https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/Shi%20Zhengli%20Q&A.pdf, I believe you will find her remarks to be in the character of a careful and honest scientist. Furthermore, the lab has openly published its work for many years. Thus its work has not been any secret. In fact, RaTG13, the virus they have that is closest to SARS-CoV-2 and whose full sequence they published in 2020, had already been previously published as a partial sequence (quite the opposite of doing anything in secret).

I also recommend reading the WHO report, which has additional details. For example, the interview did not state when the antibody testing was carried out. That detail is in the Annex to the WHO report. Note also that the WHO report did not rule out a lab leak, and said that it would be worth investigating further if new evidence came to light.

 

[PeroK]

Cases going through the roof in June to a high of 54,000 cases in a day but it looks that has changed.
Consecutive days of decreasing numbers and we have dropped to 33,000. The numbers always yo-yo before and after the weekend but this was Thurs drop and again Friday.
Perok hinted similar and he is London based.
Am I being premature? @PeroK

We'll have to wait and see which way it goes. I think it's clear that the initial wave of the Delta variant is past its peak. But, we had a big change this week with a general lifting of restrictions. We may be lucky.

I read a cynical news story this morning that claims that the government's plan is to achieve herd immunity as quickly as possible by letting the Delta variant infect as many unvaccinated people as possible! It may be more simply that Boris likes to gamble.

The government has recently revised the UK population figures using the 2020 Census data. The adult population has fallen by one million from the previous estimate. That means that, in fact, 88% of the adult population has had at least one jab; and 70% have had both - which represents a small but significant increase

 

[.Scott]

In Alabama, a doctor has been telling her COVID-19 patients that it is too late to get the vaccine, and she tells some before they are intubated.

Here is a Business Insider article that describes a very similar situation at a Florida hospital.

The unnamed nurse, who works at the Baptist Medical Center in Jacksonville, Florida, said that patients, the overwhelming majority of whom are unvaccinated, are "at a loss" for what they can do to stay alive.

"Every single day... you're getting ready to intubate the patient in ICU, which means putting them on a ventilator, and they say, 'If I get the vaccine now, can I not go on the ventilator?'" the nurse told CNN's Randi Kaye.

 

[.Scott]

"... A few days later when I call time of death,” continued Cobia on Facebook, “I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same.”

I got my annual physical just a few days ago. COVID was brought up and my doctor and myself talked about trying to convince people to get vaccinated. I told him there were quite a few people that I had talked to about this - but we both agreed he had a lot more experience. He was clearly frustrated with his lack of ability to convince people. I told him I was resorting to the very blunt "Don't put your life in your own hands, it isn't working. Trust me. Get vaccinated" approach.

Neither of us brought up this method (family of deceased) of recruitment.

 

[artis]

@atyy Well I am speculating ofcourse not saying it for a fact but I guess I am the only one here who has actually lived in the former USSR so I have some experience with totalitarian and ideological governments and their tactics. Surely I don't disagree that the official reports and claims from people like Shi Zhengli don't prove a lab leak, and trust me even if there was one they would never say. To think that they would just come out and say "yeah ooops we had some secret research and now we screwed up" is dreaming.
The Ratg 13 cases have popped up before in China were some miners fell seriously ill and some died.
Well we don't know for now all I'm saying is that China is not exactly a democracy or transparent for that matter, it's essentially a USSR 2.0 version with capitalist economic tendencies but other tactics are quite similar in many cases. Like for example back in the USSR any even low priority research whether biological or technical was under the supervision of the military and intelligence apparatus. Every serious research was first viewed as a possible military or defense tool and only then applied to civilian use if possible. I hope you guys are not being naive thinking that in China this is otherwise somehow...

I do reserve the option I am wrong but I do also remain skeptical until proven otherwise. China has a long and steady track record of intellectual property theft , spying, covert operations and very little transparency, human rights violations etc etc the list goes on.
Anyway if the mods allow for it maybe we can one day have a sane and detailed thread about the possibilities of a lab leak and gain of function research in general.
One way or the other I myself would love to learn more about it anyway.
You know... to create my own "bedroom leak" virus PS. Not denying that viruses can jump into circulation suddenly all by themselves, The Spanish flu comes to mind as a good example back in times when no country on Earth had anything close to the capability to research or leak something like that.

 

[artis]

Just to throw a little bit of info on top of what I said.


Here is a paper where Shi Zhengli is credited together with Zhou Yusen the man believed to be working for the military,
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.02015-19

And there seems to be a patent for a Covid vaccine back in 2020 February.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/04/chine...accine-patent-after-contagion-emerged-report/

https://in.news.yahoo.com/chinese-m...KBMzPGpRF_vGfvK2BdRKTROpccElw01H7eb3136umJv_EAs I said we don't know and maybe will never know but I would take everything Shi Zhengli or any other Chinese official say with a "bag of salt", I hope I don't have to remind anyone we are talking about a country where being in political opposition can result in being jailed or assassinated.

 

[.Scott]

Sadly there are idiots like that out there. In fact, a friend of mine on facebook from Brisbane said he took 99% of the ingredients out of the vaccine - and what was left? Baby blood. He's too religious for me.

The mRNA vaccines were develop and are manufactured without human components. However, before human trials, they were tested on two human cell lines. Using the Catholic spin (my wife is Catholic and we have raised our family Catholic), those cell lines are derived from lung tissue from a British baby boy (MRC-5) and a Swedish baby girl (WI-38). To be clear, they were each fetuses of about 3 months development.

Brisbane would be the AstroZenca vaccine (AZD1222) which (like the mRNA vaccines) was developed without human components. It was tested against MRC-5 and is manufactured using the HEK 293 cell line, nominally derived from human fetal kidney cells but on subsequent study are more likely from an immature fetal human neuron.
There are no HEK 293 cells in AZD1222, but one could imagine that there might be cellular fragments that might make it through the manufacturing process. Still, when someone becomes infected with COVID by inhaling the virus - no one is concerned that they have also likely inhaled human products - cell fragments or whatever. And the virus itself (created by human cells) is also not considered a human product.

The Catholic view on COVID vaccination is that it is imperative to avoid passing along the virus. Given that, vaccines not developed or manufactured using a human cell line (such as the mRNAs) should be chosen over the others.

My personal view of this Catholic tentativeness with the non-mRNA vaccines is that it is not generally applied to the most central tenets of Catholicism.

From what I read I believe that fetal cells are used because they are "new" and haven't divided yet beyond the usable limit and are best suited for growing human infecting viruses?
The thing I don't know is how many are needed to produce such a vast amount of vaccines given the virus has to be grown constantly otherwise it would run out of virus?

As I described above, when used at all, the human cell lines are used in the early testing (WI-38 and MRC-5) and later the manufacturing (HEK293) of the vaccine. The cell lines use in the manufacturing of the vaccines have modified genetics that apparently eliminate the pre-programmed cell aging problem.

 

[artis]

Truth be told the children were aborted anyway so once they are dead what is the difference where their cells go... better for helping humanity than to simply be thrown out. Not disrespecting anyone with certain religion I myself am religious in a way but I do think that sometimes (more like a lot of times) religion tries to resort to useless arguments for the sake of appearances. That's why I like faith better than religion.

 

[.Scott]

I don't know whether this makes me part of the conspiracy world but in this case I am quite alarmed and angry that if the lab theory is correct it seems China and it's dangerous regime will get away with it. Given the circumstances the least they should have done was to allow a complete and thorough access to both Wuhan (lab , etc) and elsewhere. Although I guess chasing a virus origin is like chasing the wind somewhat. Unless someone comes forward and admits (if there is anything to admit) we will never know.

There are several possible "Wuhan lab / COVID" scenarios:

1) Wuhan lab was established because it is where viruses (such as SAR-1) have naturally developed in the past - and so it is a logical place to do research on that phenomenon: No SARS-2 escaped from this lab at all. I find this the most likely scenario.

2) After SARS-2 was already extant, it was brought to the lab for study and some escaped: Plausible, but unlikely. In any case, this would not put China at odds with the world. We would all share a common interest in making very certain that no such unintentional escape ever occurs again. And I do not doubt that the Chinese are very capable of setting and enforcing effective safety standards.

3) Wuhan lab studies include research into how China might defend itself against a nationally-sponsored viral attack and COVID escaped during this process: I don't doubt that China is very interested in its vulnerability to a nationally-sponsored viral attack, but the development and subsequent escape of COVID-19 impresses me as a highly far-flung possibility.

4) Wuhan lab studies include the offensive weaponization of viruses and COVID escaped during this process: China is certainly in no position to attack with a weaponized virus - and it certainly would never put such a lab in the south-eastern part of the country - the part that is most congested and most vulnerable. Given the SARS-1 experience, China would have no illusion about keeping any potent respiratory virus from coming back to their shores.

 

[atyy]

The Ratg 13 cases have popped up before in China were some miners fell seriously ill and some died.

It is not clear how the miners died. Nonetheless, there doesn't seem to have been any suspicious secrecy here. That Shi Zhengli's group collected samples from a mineshaft because miners working there had died and they suspected infection with an unknown virus was revealed by Shi Zhengli herself in April 2020. It is known from the Institute's pre-pandemic published papers that they collected samples from many places with the purpose of finding new viruses that may be able to cause a pandemic. Their papers include reports of antibodies in humans indicating infection by unknown coronaviruses - while these cases did not die - it shows that they were not hiding that had been previous infection of people by unknown viruses, and they explicitly stated that this may mean that future infections by unknown viruses could have pandemic potential.

 

[atyy]

And there seems to be a patent for a Covid vaccine back in 2020 February.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/04/chine...accine-patent-after-contagion-emerged-report/

https://in.news.yahoo.com/chinese-m...KBMzPGpRF_vGfvK2BdRKTROpccElw01H7eb3136umJv_E

https://investors.modernatx.com/new...first-participant-dosed-nih-led-phase-1-study
A press release from Moderna stated: "On January 11, 2020, the Chinese authorities shared the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus. On January 13, 2020 the VRC and Moderna’s infectious disease research team finalized the sequence for the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine and Moderna mobilized toward clinical manufacture. The first clinical batch was completed on February 7, 2020 and underwent analytical testing; it was shipped on February 24, 2020 from Moderna and delivered to NIH from the Company’s manufacturing facility in 42 days from sequence selection."

https://www.markmanadvisors.com/blo...tes-for-moderna-astrazeneca-jampj-and-novovax
It seems the Moderna patent was filed on Feb 28, 2020

 

[Evo]

45% of Americans are STUPID, it just sickens me. (edited)

Among American adults who have not yet received a vaccine, 35% say they probably will not, and 45% say they definitely will not, according to a poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Just 3% say they definitely will get the shots, though another 16% say they probably will.

What's more, 64% of unvaccinated Americans have little to no confidence the shots are effective against variants — including the delta variant that officials say is responsible for 83% of new cases in the U.S. — despite evidence that they offer strong protection

https://news.yahoo.com/ap-norc-poll-most-unvaccinated-144516547.html

 

[nsaspook]

Americans are STUPID, it just sickens me.
https://news.yahoo.com/ap-norc-poll-most-unvaccinated-144516547.html

Too broad a statement. The fully-vaccinated are a very large group of Americans. I've moved beyond the empathy stage for those that chose not to get vaccinated. Point being, it was placed directly in front of them and the no-vaxx minority never bothered while many us took considerable effort to get vaccinated ASAP early in the vaccination effort.

 

[.Scott]

Americans are STUPID, it just sickens me.

Present company excepted?

 

[Evo]

Present company excepted?

I edited it.

More about why Americans aren't getting vaccinated. Do other countries have this problem with people refusing vaccinations?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-tops-nation-covid-cases-151309966.html

 

[Tom.G]

In a casual discussion with a Doctor, their observation was "Darwinism in action."

 

[atyy]

More about why Americans aren't getting vaccinated. Do other countries have this problem with people refusing vaccinations?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-tops-nation-covid-cases-151309966.html

Yes, unfortunately, Singapore has a problem. In the 70+ age group, vaccination coverage is only about 70% - way below the US coverage of 88% for 65+. The Health Ministry is trying to fix this big problem with more advertising including appeals from the Prime Minister, and house-to-house visits (though currently these are mainly for housebound seniors). Vaccine uptake rates among younger age groups seems to be fine so far (but we have to see, as these have only started being vaccinated more recently), so it seems to be a different problem from the US where vaccine hesitancy is mainly in non-seniors (but in a sense, our problem is worse, since the US has seniors much more well vaccinated than us). I thought we should just train kindergarten kids to secretly jab their grandparents at home, like a "Little Ninja roleplay" (it's obvious I'm not going to allowed to work in the health ministry any time soon ).

 

[StevieTNZ]

In a casual discussion with a Doctor, their observation was "Darwinism in action."

I remember at the end of an appointment with my psychiatrist, I asked whether he had been given the shot. My social worker was in attendance and he's shared with me his experience getting the jab - no problems. Thinking it'd be a straighforward answer, I ask Dr Garcia 'have you had your shot yet?' to which, while continuing to type my prescription up, he replied 'that's private personal medical information'. I thought good grief... a yes or no would have sufficed.

 

[pinball1970]

The government has recently revised the UK population figures using the 2020 Census data. The adult population has fallen by one million from the previous estimate. That means that, in fact, 88% of the adult population has had at least one jab; and 70% have had both - which represents a small but significant increase

The 'no documents required' for the Vaccine in London was a good move. Illegally placed peoples.
They won't count in the numbers presumably?

I edited it.

More about why Americans aren't getting vaccinated. Do other countries have this problem with people refusing vaccinations?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-tops-nation-covid-cases-151309966.html

India. My colleagues out there say many are distrustful and do not take it. There are educational programs out there.
UK COLUMN is a right wing group here that put false information on their website regarding the Vaccines. That nonsense then gets quoted during discussions on line.

 

[Zeke137]

Here's my favorite COVID charting and mapping site, featuring among others this particular page with emphasis on virus variants by region, and by country+date: https://www.coron...ants.php

Nice site, only a couple of months old, but already with some very informative charts and maps.

 

[pinball1970]

I edited it.

More about why Americans aren't getting vaccinated. Do other countries have this problem with people refusing vaccinations?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-tops-nation-covid-cases-151309966.html

These guys too. @bhobba will have seen this?

 

[bhobba]

These guys too. @bhobba will have seen this?

Yes, Aussies have the same problem. But at the moment, we are just working on vaccinating as many as possible as fast as possible. Plus, we are undoing the bad messaging about the AZ vaccine. We did not explain the minuscule risk well.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Astronuc]

I edited it.

More about why Americans aren't getting vaccinated. Do other countries have this problem with people refusing vaccinations?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-tops-nation-covid-cases-151309966.html

I read that article this morning.

State health department data shows more than a third of Liberty and Calhoun residents suffer from obesity, a major risk factor for COVID-19 complications.

Obesity is often associated with hyperlipidemia, which is one of the comorbidities with COVID-19.
https://www.brighamandwomens.org/he...ditions/hyperlipidemia-high-blood-cholesterol

Dr. Davis works a small clinic in Blountstown, Calhoun County, Florida.

Many of her patients have chronic kidney disease, which often accompanies high blood pressure and diabetes, making them vulnerable to the virus and complications.

Chronic kidney disease, high blood pressure and diabetes are also comorbidities with COVID-19.

New York state tracks the top 10 comorbidites with COVID-19: 1 Hypertension, 2 Diabetes, 3 Hyperlipidemia, 6 Renal disease, . . . . Dementia is 4 and Coronary artery disease is 5.

"The association of hypertension and coronary heart disease is a frequent one. There are several pathophysiologic mechanisms which link both diseases. Hypertension induces endothelial dysfunction, exacerbates the atherosclerotic process and it contributes to make the atherosclerotic plaque more unstable."
https://www.nature.com/articles/1001345

And there is the possibility of re-infection, ostensibly with the Delta variant.

Edna Roberts, 42, of Blountstown, was one of those infected before. Last week, she again tested positive for COVID-19. This time she and her whole family fell ill. She said they're all having trouble breathing, and it "knocked" her out.

Sadly, someone thought he could beat it, but succumbed to COVID-19. He was adamant about not getting the vaccine. He was 34.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-california-man-in-his-early-30s-who-derided-vaccines-on-twitter-and-instagram-died-of-covid-19/ar-AAMtnul

Yet another sad story - An Alabama mother who lost her [28-yearold] son to Covid says not getting the vaccine is her biggest regret
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/alabama-mother-lost-her-son-194410415.html

His last uttered phrase is still etched in Christy Carpenter's mind: "This is not a hoax, this is real," Curt said, according to his mother.

Christy Carpenter has long term effects, even after 'recovering' from the infection.

Even after being discharged from the hospital, Christy Carpenter said, she could not drive or work until late May. She said she has been on pulmonary therapy ever since and still struggles with fatigue, hair loss and "covid brain."

 

[.Scott]

Here's my favorite COVID charting and mapping site, featuring among others this particular page with emphasis on virus variants by region, and by country+date: https://www.coron...ants.php

Nice site, only a couple of months old, but already with some very informative charts and maps.

I like that site.

Here's a screen shot of one of their charts showing how the Delta variant went from about 25% to 80% of the cases in 4 weeks. It abruptly reversed the downward infection trend in the US. It is creating a huge problem in states with low vaccination rates.

BTW: My state (New Hampshire) has had the lowest "Daily new cases/100K" in the US for the last few days.
This isn't because our case rates are going down - just that they are rising very slowly. With a vaccination rate 64%, it's not clear why we are doing so well. Neighboring Vermont had been doing better than us and has a vaccination rate of 75%. But both of us are getting infections in tourist areas - so perhaps we have healthier tourists?

Edit: Sorry, this image was not originally included.

 

[PeroK]

BTW: My state (New Hampshire) has had the lowest "Daily new cases/100K" in the US for the last few days.
This isn't because our case rates are going down - just that they are rising very slowly. With a vaccination rate 64%, it's not clear why we are doing so well. Neighboring Vermont had been doing better than us and has a vaccination rate of 75%. But both of us are getting infections in tourist areas - so perhaps we have healthier tourists?

Remember that the first wave of COVID was highly clustered. The same was true of Delta in the UK - it was initially clustered in certain towns. It takes some time to get more of an even spread across the country.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

45% of Americans are STUPID, it just sickens me. (edited)
https://news.yahoo.com/ap-norc-poll-most-unvaccinated-144516547.html

This is not a correct number. The survey says that 45% of unvaccinated American adults will definitely not receive the vaccine. Given that ~69% of the adults in the US have received at least one dose of the vaccine, this would amount to only about 14% of US adults.

However, I agree with the assessment of their stupidity.

 

[Evo]

This is not a correct number. The survey says that 45% of unvaccinated American adults will definitely not receive the vaccine. Given that ~69% of the adults in the US have received at least one dose of the vaccine, this would amount to only about 14% of US adults.

However, I agree with the assessment of their stupidity.

Well, that might be the correct number of stupid unvaccinated adults, but I still hold to my AT LEAST 45% of Americans are stupid (my own opinion) based on just the things I read every day, doesn't have to be Covid related.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My GF is vaccinated but came down with symptoms last weekend. She did test positive for Covid but I don't know which variant. She had some rough days and it has taken a week. But she is feeling much better today. Given that she was fairly ill, it might have been really bad if she wasn't vaccinated.

Lucky for me she had been out of town and I hadn't seen her for a couple of weeks. We were supposed to spend last weekend together but never made it that far.

 

[StevieTNZ]

My GF is vaccinated but came down with symptoms last weekend. She did test positive for Covid but I don't know which variant. She had some rough days and it has taken a week. But she is feeling much better today. Given that she was fairly ill, it might have been really bad if she wasn't vaccinated.

Lucky for me she had been out of town and I hadn't seen her for a couple of weeks. We were supposed to spend last weekend together but never made it that far.

There is this article, https://abcnews.go.com/Health/stanf...hrough-cases-covid-19-fully/story?id=79007407, where 7 fully vaccinated students have caught Covid-19.

 

[.Scott]

Stupid is normal. There are three variants on stupid:
1) Ones who trust their own estimates - they can potentially be reasoned with - but this is a minority;
2) Ones who rely on unreliable sources - reasoning will not work - changing their opinion is an exercise in conversion; and
3) Ones who rely on reliable sources - if they're not already vaccinated, they're ready.

 

[nsaspook]

From before the Pandemic. Nothing has really changed.

 

[Tom.G]

...I still hold to my AT LEAST 45% of Americans are stupid...

Well that's not too bad, it puts 55% of us above average.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[bhobba]

Sydney still getting worse - but slowly:
https://www.couriermail.com.au/coronavirus/nsw-covid-updates-lane-cove-west-public-school-student-positive/live-coverage/e21f6e6565d9ad317225f0f63f596566?utm_source=CourierMail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Editorial&utm_content=CM_LATESTNEWS_BREAKING-CUR_01&net_sub_id=285783538&type=curated&position=1&overallPos=1

 

[StevieTNZ]

It is quite scary what is happening in Sydney. In NZ, Covid has been detected in waste water up in the New Plymouth area - hopefully there is no community spread happening which is going undetected otherwise. The Govt is telling people who have recently returned from Australia who are in that area, or anyone showing signs, to get tested.

 

[artis]

It seems that at least in EU where I'm at they have now reached a conclusion that those who have been infected are fine to just get one shot as being previously ill already gives you the base and then all you care for is the booster to prolong the immunity you already have like in my case. I tested my blood already twice and I got a good level of antibodies.
That being said I plan to get the shot at the end of my 6 month certificate which seems fine.

But this got me wondering, is it the case that the vaccine side effects are mainly also the ones experienced from Covid itself? So in theory if I had the real thing and had it pretty rough but my organs apart from lungs were all fine (lungs are now fine too) then I guess I also shouldn't be in the tiny risk group that can get myocarditis?
I'm just wondering have there been any studies that link infection side effects with vaccine side effects to show what we all probably anticipate that the vaccine cannot cause other side effects than the real infection? Although I guess here there is a difference between the types of vaccine like "classical" vs "mRNA"At least it seems so for other "classical" vaccines. When I got the tick encephalitis shot I had like a week of dull head and rather strong loss of power and stamina as well as bad appetite, essentially a small version of the "real deal" or what goes on in real encephalitis cases.
Just to let it out there, I know a man who had the real encephalitis from a tick and he was like 104 F for about a month back and forth and he could barely pee or get up from bed, he did recover fully but damn I wouldn't want that kind of experience, even my Covid was easier.

 

[Rive]

But this got me wondering, is it the case that the vaccine side effects are mainly also the ones experienced from Covid itself?

Human immune system has a quite uniform early response toolset for handling (suspected) infections (fever, etc.) and vaccines are - well, they are too suspected infections. So no wonder here. Just the direction of approach is not the best.

 

[artis]

@Rive what do you mean by "direction of approach" ?

 

[Rive]

I mean, the way it was written were hinting a link between Covid an vaccine, while it's about both having a set of standard responses from the immune system.

 

[artis]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/Surely there is still time for things to go haywire but if the situation up until this point is of any significance then look at the "daily new cases" worldwide meter, it seems even though the Delta is more transmissible the third wave overall will not be as high as the second, the July month first and second peak don't differ as much as the ones in the months of the 2nd wave.

 

[Astronuc]

Why the Delta variant is so dangerous for the unvaccinated
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-variant-dangerous-unvaccinated-142806647.html

“So far, almost all of the hospitalizations and deaths that we’re seeing — upwards of 99% of those cases — are among the unvaccinated,” Kristen Choi, assistant professor at UCLA School of Nursing, said on Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “So despite this variant — the way it’s changed, that’s it’s more transmissible — vaccines are still our No. 1 line of defense. And it’s going to be critical that we keep making progress on getting adults and kids vaccinated here in the U.S.”

Cases are up in New York state, with nearly 2000 cases/day. Deaths however have not substantially increased with mortality rates of less than of equal to 4 per day, but yesterday, the number spiked to 9 in one day, which maybe due to delay in reporting. Mortality rate may start to increase due to a lag in mortality with respect to positive cases. New York state has tested more than 60.7 million persons, or more than 3x the total population. I have not been tested, while my wife (prior to medical procedure) and son (exposure at work) have each been tested twice. We all continue to wear masks in public despite being fully vaccinated for several months.

As of Saturday, July 24, NY state has identified 2120155 positive cases cumulatively, or nearly 11% of the 19.45 million population. The state reports 43055 deaths (cumulatively) due to Covid-19, but NY Times reports 53228 deaths, which may include ~9800 probable or suspected deaths due to Covid-19.

Florida will soon pass 2.5 million cases (38670 deaths), Texas just passed 3 million cases (53156 deaths), and California leads with more than 3.9 million cases (64225 deaths). The number of deaths likely includes probable with confirmed. The US has had more than 600k deaths due to Covid-19.

 

[Astronuc]

The Delta Variant Is the Symptom of a Bigger Threat: Vaccine Refusal
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/health/coronavirus-vaccine-refusal.html

The more contagious delta variant may be getting the blame, but fueling its rise is an older, more familiar foe: vaccine hesitancy and refusal, long pervasive in the United States. Were a wider swath of the population vaccinated, there would be no resurgence — of the delta variant, alpha variant or any other version of the coronavirus.

While mild breakthrough infections may be more common than once thought, the vaccines effectively prevent severe illness and death. Yet nearly half the population remains unvaccinated and unprotected. About 30% of adults have not received even a single dose, and the percentage is much higher in some parts of the country.

But delta is by no means the wickedest variant out there. Gamma and lambda are waiting in the wings, and who knows what frightful versions are already flourishing undetected in the far corners of the world, perhaps even here in America.

Houston Methodist Hospital, which operates eight hospitals in its network, said the first lambda case was confirmed Monday.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-hospital-reports-1st-case-lambda-covid-19/story?id=78943641

The Gamma Variant's Rise in Washington State
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93415

Washington state's leading COVID-19 strain remains Alpha (B.1.1.7), first detected in the U.K. But according to recent data released by the state's Department of Health (DOH), cases caused by Gamma reached 16.3% in mid-June -- a decrease from a high of 20.6% in May. Delta cases increased by more than 10% from May to June, now making up 17.6% of infections in the state -- all while Alpha cases continue to slowly dwindle.

 

[Evo]

This is a reason a large portion of the states in areas where the Covid Delta cases are rising fastest, these states are highly Evangelical.

Since the early months of the Coronavirus pandemic, Greg Locke, the pastor at a Nashville-area church, has repeatedly called Covid a hoax, undermined emergency mandates and refused to comply with guidance from public health officials.

This week, Locke took his defiance a step further, making a sharp warning regarding mask-wearing.

If "you start showing up [with] all these masks and all this nonsense, I will ask you to leave," Locke, 45, told scores of Global Vision Bible Church parishioners during his sermon on Sunday. His statement was followed by cheers and applause.

"I am not playing these Democrat games up in this church," he added.

Global Vision Bible Church did not immediately respond to The Washington Post's request for comment.

Locke's fiery five-minute diatribe, in which he also denied the existence of the delta variant, comes as vaccination rates in his home state slow and infection rates climb. So far, about 44 percent of Tennesseans have received at least one dose of the vaccine, according to The Post's vaccine tracker, making it among the states with the lowest rate. The state recently reported that 98 percent of people who died of Covid and 97 percent of Covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated.

continued...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/evangelical-pastor-demands-churchgoers-ditch-101435205.html

 

[Vanadium 50]

This is a reason a large portion of the states in areas where the Covid Delta cases are rising fastest, these states are highly Evangelical.

I don't think that's cause and effect. South Dakota and Indiana are also strongly Evangelical, and yet their cases aren't rising fastest. The three states rising fastest are Florida, Arkansas and Missouri, ranked 16, 4 and 11 in terms of fraction of population self-identifying as evangelical.