Getting into physics after computer engineering

[arpit2agrawal]

Hello

I have bachelors degree in computer engineering from Pune University, India. I want to pursue further career in physics. I have scored 940/990 in subject GRE physics and I am now preparing for general GRE.

Please suggest from which university (of US preferably) I can get masters degree in physics. Every university says that they require physics background...

Thank you

 

[fss]

Lots of universities offer master's degrees in physics. Google search.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Lots of universities offer master's degrees in physics. Google search.

But all university expect some previous education in physics. I didn't have any course in physics in my bachelors (since my bachelors is in computer engineering). Please suggest me some university.

 

[kanato]

Suggesting a university to you isn't going to do you much good. I would suggest calling around to various universities and talking to someone there about your situation. You can see how receptive they are. I suspect you will find different responses at different schools. Not having any previous coursework in physics will hurt your chances of getting in, for sure. Many of them will probably want to feel confident that you have enough background to at least teach the introductory physics classes. I think many universities will let you spend a year taking advanced undergraduate classes.

I would suggest taking or auditing some courses in physics at a local university. Also, I would say that you are interested in getting a PhD instead of a masters. Most physics programs in the US prefer to get students who want to be there for the long haul.

 

[maverick280857]

But all university expect some previous education in physics. I didn't have any course in physics in my bachelors (since my bachelors is in computer engineering).

As an engineer, you would surely have done some courses on basic physics (mechanics, electrodynamics) and modern physics (optics, quantum physics)? A physics background is recommended but not absolutely necessary. Doing well on the PGRE could be more important if you don't have a physics undergrad.

You should talk to professors in the departments you want to work, that's the best thing to do. I don't know how auditing courses in physics after your degree will really help your graduate application, though it'll no doubt expose you to more physics.

A lot depends on what kind of physics you want to get into. You didn't specify that. Your computer engineering background could prove to be handy.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

As an engineer, you would surely have done some courses on basic physics (mechanics, electrodynamics) and modern physics (optics, quantum physics)?

I did take following courses related to physics and maths during my bachelors:

Engineering mechanics
Basic mechanical engineering
Basic civil engineering
Basic electrical engineering
Basic electronics engineering
Electronics devices and circuits
Applied sciences I
Applied sciences II
Engineering mathematics I
Engineering mathematics II
Engineering mathematics III

Is that sufficient? Please tell me.

You should talk to professors in the departments you want to work, that's the best thing to do.

Thanks. I'll do that once I get my general GRE scores (probably around Aug 2011).

A lot depends on what kind of physics you want to get into. You didn't specify that. Your computer engineering background could prove to be handy.

I want to go into fundamental research. I am interested in subjects like quantum physics, relativity, etc. Please suggest me career path.

Thank you very much.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Engineering mechanics
Basic mechanical engineering
Basic civil engineering
Basic electrical engineering
Basic electronics engineering
Electronics devices and circuits
Applied sciences I
Applied sciences II

Does that complete 20 semester hours of physics? Please tell me.

 

[maverick280857]

Does that complete 20 semester hours of physics? Please tell me.

Usually, a very basic physics curriculum involves classical mechanics, electrodynamics, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics and thermodynamics. Then there are slightly more advanced courses on atomic and molecular physics, relativity and nuclear/particle physics.

The courses you have listed here are 'basic' engineering courses and most not-so-applied physics departments will not see them as contributing to the standard physics curriculum.

I do not know where the "20 semester hours" requirement stems from, but the courses you listed will definitely be quite unfamiliar to potential graduate school employers. In fact it might be helpful to include a brief list of course contents and textbooks used for each course. Mentioning your instructor's name against the courses could be helpful too.

 

[maverick280857]

I want to go into fundamental research. I am interested in subjects like quantum physics, relativity, etc. Please suggest me career path.

You'll have to pick between the likes of 'condensed matter physics', 'high energy physics', 'atomic, molecular and optical physics', 'cosmology' or 'astrophysics' (I'm skipping a lot of other sub fields). Most of these involve quantum physics and relativity these days, which are building blocks rather than research fields per se.

So basically you'll have to be clearer about what kind of physics you want to do. For starters, theory or experiment. Since you have a lot of time, why don't you visit the graduate information pages of various Physics departments of US universities and look at their active research topics, read up some background and figure out where you interests lie.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Okay. I'll do that.

The courses you are telling are covered in Master of Science (Physics) degree in Indian universities. I think I should go into that program in my home country, India first. Than I can apply for PhD program into US universities, right?

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Hey maverick280857, I read in one thread that you went from electronics engineering to physics. Which 2 universities did you get admit from? Please also tell me, how are chances of good universities like MIT, Harvard or even Columbia giving admit to me for their Physics PhD program considering my bachelors in computer engineering, subject GRE score of 940/990 and assuming I get good general GRE score also (around 600 in verbal and 750 in quant)?
...I know 600 in verbal is not a good one but I don't think I'll do better than that.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[crackjack]

In your case, it would be wiser to apply for a masters from a mid-level univ, and later apply for PhD to better univ. The reasons being:
1. Since PhDs require univ to commit a lot more resources for a longer time, they will feel less it less riskier to admit a student like you (so don't expect funding)
2. Good univ usually take in students who will stay for phd and so their masters acceptance ratio is very small.

Another cheaper option is to finish your masters from India before you directly apply for a funded PhD at a good-ranked univ (outside or within India).

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Okay. Thank you crackjack. I think I will do what you suggested.

 

[maverick280857]

Okay. Thank you crackjack. I think I will do what you suggested.

I'm sorry, I wrote a long reply to all your questions, but it seems it never got posted. Anyway, for now, try to do well on your general GRE (the quantitative and analytical writing parts at least). Have you already graduated or are you still an undergrad? If you have graduated, try auditing courses in TIFR and other universities within the country while you prepare for your applications.

As to your other question, Indian universities will sometimes admit students directly to the PhD program after a BTech/BE by making them go through Masters level coursework. You should take the entrance exams of TIFR, HRI (JEST) and IMSc.

US univs usually admit students directly to the PhD program, and they don't require a masters degree. In fact sometimes you may have to join the integrated MS+PhD program in physics in spite of having a masters from India.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

I'm sorry, I wrote a long reply to all your questions, but it seems it never got posted. Anyway, for now, try to do well on your general GRE (the quantitative and analytical writing parts at least).

Okay. I will do my best possible.

Have you already graduated or are you still an undergrad? If you have graduated, try auditing courses in TIFR and other universities within the country while you prepare for your applications.
As to your other question, Indian universities will sometimes admit students directly to the PhD program after a BTech/BE by making them go through Masters level coursework. You should take the entrance exams of TIFR, HRI (JEST) and IMSc.

I saw brochure of entrance exams of TIFR, IIT, etc. and also of universities like University of Mumbai, University of Nagpur, University of Amravati (my hometown) but all expect their students to be already bachelors in physics major for getting admit to masters/PhD program. The only university which I saw allow B.E./B.Tech. students to go for master/PhD program is Pune University. Please tell me if you know more such Indian universities.

I am preparing for general GRE. I'll apply for masters from Pune University and also to masters program from US universities (both kind of programs viz. terminal masters degree and master+PhD). Let's see where I get admit from and than I'll decide accordingly. I'll post in this thread as soon as I get admit.

 

[maverick280857]

I saw brochure of entrance exams of TIFR, IIT, etc. and also of universities like University of Mumbai, University of Nagpur, University of Amravati (my hometown) but all expect their students to be already bachelors in physics major for getting admit to masters/PhD program. The only university which I saw allow B.E./B.Tech. students to go for master/PhD program is Pune University. Please tell me if you know more such Indian universities.

TIFR, HRI, IISc admit students through admission tests. I believe having a bachelors in engineering is not technically an impediment, as long as you clear the tests and also the interviews that follow.

For TIFR: http://univ.tifr.res.in/gs2011/index.html
JEST (for HRI): http://jest2011.imsc.res.in/
CMI: http://www.cmi.ac.in/admissions/procedure.php

There's also RRI in Bangalore.

I do not know what the current rules in IITs are, but there have been cases of engineering students being admitted to the MSc or sometimes even direct PhD programs in science. Rather than referring to brochures, you should contact professors and officials who handle admissions. There are exceptions to the rule, and your motivation and persistence will help more than anything else.

Good luck!

 

[ZapperZ]

Hello

I have bachelors degree in computer engineering from Pune University, India. I want to pursue further career in physics. I have scored 940/990 in subject GRE physics and I am now preparing for general GRE.

Please suggest from which university (of US preferably) I can get masters degree in physics. Every university says that they require physics background...

Thank you

You might wan to start by reading this thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=64966

Note that if your intention is actually to get a Ph.D in physics (in the US), and you think you need a Masters degree first, you need to read up a bit more on US graduate education system.

Zz.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

TIFR, HRI, IISc admit students through admission tests. I believe having a bachelors in engineering is not technically an impediment, as long as you clear the tests and also the interviews that follow.

For TIFR: http://univ.tifr.res.in/gs2011/index.html
JEST (for HRI): http://jest2011.imsc.res.in/
CMI: http://www.cmi.ac.in/admissions/procedure.php

There's also RRI in Bangalore.

I do not know what the current rules in IITs are, but there have been cases of engineering students being admitted to the MSc or sometimes even direct PhD programs in science. Rather than referring to brochures, you should contact professors and officials who handle admissions. There are exceptions to the rule, and your motivation and persistence will help more than anything else.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for the information. Yes. I checked. Some institutes in India give admit directly into PhD(Physics) program even after B.E. degree. TIFR and RRI Bangalore are two examples. TIFR's application date for 2011 admit is already over. I can now apply to RRI (admission based on my awesome AGRE score 940/990), CMI and probably some more institutes. There are lots of institutes in India which offer PhD(Physics) programs. May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make? Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Note to all: You guys have no idea to what extent people like me are benefiting from this forum !

 

[arpit2agrawal]

You might wan to start by reading this thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=64966

Note that if your intention is actually to get a Ph.D in physics (in the US), and you think you need a Masters degree first, you need to read up a bit more on US graduate education system.

Zz.

Yes. I read that thread. Actually I read on many US universities website that for getting into PhD program they require at least a bachelors degree with good level of concentration in Physics. I had hardly any core physics course in my bachelors (since I bachelor-ed in computer engineering). So I am thinking of doing some physics courses (in the form of masters degree) before going for PhD. Please tell me if there is any better path to get PhD from a good US university. Will good US university give admit to me in Physics PhD program (considering I bachelor-ed in computer engineering)?

 

[arpit2agrawal]

May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make? Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Some more questions:
Considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, I should go for theoretical physics rather than experimental physics, right?
How is Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research (IISER), Pune? I am keen to study in Pune due to family reasons but I can go to any city for better option.

 

[CyberShot]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad? Good for you.

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad?

See this is why I question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

Dude... but I did watch all video lectures of MIT, USA and also read books recommended by MIT for Physics undergraduate program. Score of subject GRE is percentile based, and even good Physics bachelors from good US universities don't score that much.

 

[DrummingAtom]

You got a 940 on the PGRE, and you say you haven't taken a real physics course in your undergrad? Good for you.

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

Dude... but I did watch all video lectures of MIT, USA and also read books recommended by MIT for Physics undergraduate program. Score of subject GRE is percentile based, and even good Physics bachelors from good US universities don't score that much.

Just ignore CyberShot, his response doesn't offer any help and is just a rant. It sounds like you worked hard for that score and deserve it. Keep it up.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

Even I hate people who pass exams by repeated memorization and/or other tricks. It's disgusting the way people do that. Such people can never succeed in real life. Their success is limited just till academics.
...but not all Indians are like that!

It sounds like you worked hard for that score and deserve it. Keep it up.

Thank you.

 

[maverick280857]

May you please tell me which are good (considering my interest in very fundamental research like quantum physics, although I am not sure if I'll do something in exactly quantum physics). If you have something like ranking of these research institutes, please share it with me.

I don't really believe in rankings. It all boils down to what you do for research and how good your work is. After that, a lot depends on your advisor, his/her contacts and the network you build. So, you should visit these places, talk to professors and figure out whose work you find the most interesting.

PS -- "Quantum physics" by itself isn't really a research topic in many physics departments. It's also a little vague because almost all theoretical physics research nowadays involves the use of quantum mechanics. "Fundamental" research in quantum physics is often done in the context of quantum information theory, sometimes in math and philosophy departments.

Also, please tell me, is it advisable for me to go for PhD program in Indian institute or should I prefer US university? How much difference does it make?

Again, this is a matter of opinion. Go to a place with a decent department size, people working in various different areas outside of your immediate thesis topic and where there are a lot of talks and seminars (so you know what's going on in other fields).

Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Yes.

 

[maverick280857]

But, see this is where I start to question the efficacy of the PGRE -.-

And I really look down upon the fact that the test can be exploited by international students in India and China who are always acing it because of repeated memorization and/or other tricks.

This is a myopic perspective. It is widely believed PGRE is more a test of discipline than of physics. Many bright students do poorly on the PGRE because they haven't had much time to prepare for the test per se, while reading through Sakurai, Jackson or Goldstein. All this is too well known, and is really off-topic.

Many departments don't think highly of PGRE as an indicator of one's prowess in undergrad physics. But given that a lot of the material is covered in engineering courses in India, its not fair to make a sweeping generalization about using "repeated memorization and/or other tricks." Apart from some specialized questions in particle/nuclear physics, a lot of the 'standard' questions are at the level of engineering entrance exams for IITs, which students prepare hard for anyway right from junior high.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Can I go to US for research after getting a PhD from India?

Yes.

What generally people do after getting PhD (from US or India, whatever) if they wish to go into fundamental research (i.e. not applied industrial research)? Do they work as a professor in some university and do their research simultaneously or do they work in government/private research companies or anything else? Also please tell me if I do PhD in India then is it easy to get into such places in US (I mean just telephonic interview is possible) and do they sponsor my visa also? I think getting into US from India as a student is much easier than as a professional, am I right?

 

[maverick280857]

What generally people do after getting PhD (from US or India, whatever) if they wish to go into fundamental research (i.e. not applied industrial research)? Do they work as a professor in some university and do their research simultaneously or do they work in government/private research companies or anything else?

A PhD in Physics is a bare minimum if you want to get into academia. You will most likely find it helpful (if not mandatory) to pursue at least one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postdoctoral_research" . In fact many jobs will require it. You will need to demonstrate that you can pursue independent research given adequate resources, and a postdoc is something between being guided (PhD) and guiding others (becoming a PhD guide yourself, or a lead researcher/professor).

Also please tell me if I do PhD in India then is it easy to get into such places in US (I mean just telephonic interview is possible) and do they sponsor my visa also? I think getting into US from India as a student is much easier than as a professional, am I right?

These really are not the kind of things you should worry about at this point. If you are admitted to a US university for a PhD or postdoc, their international student/scholars' office will help you through the visa application.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

That is indeed very useful information. Please also tell me, are there non-educational institutes which are into fundamental research (I mean not in industrial or applied research)? And what do theoretical physicist who wants to do fundamental research do for rest of their life? Just fundamental research or fundamental research with teaching or something else also? And how much do they earn approximately?

 

[DrummingAtom]

Hey maverick, I read some of your other posts and saw you went from EE to physics. I'm an EE and curious about how difficult the switch was. Did you take many physics classes during your EE undergrad? Did you do any undergrad research in physics or EE? Is there anything you would have done differently?

I'm going to focus on the more physics-y EE fields (semiconductor, optics, etc.) during my undergrad and do plan on getting into a physics/EE research group next year. All in all, I'm not 100% I'm going to grad school (for EE or physics) but I'd like to maybe have the option when I graduate. Thanks for any advice.

 

[maverick280857]

Please also tell me, are there non-educational institutes which are into fundamental research (I mean not in industrial or applied research)?

What do you mean by non-educational institutes? Pure science usually has limited (if any) immediate applications, and research into it is usually pursued in universities. Also I don't know what you mean by "fundamental research" versus not-so-fundamental research. I assume by fundamental you mean stuff that's not geared toward industrial applications.

And what do theoretical physicist who wants to do fundamental research do for rest of their life? Just fundamental research or fundamental research with teaching or something else also?

What do they do for the rest of their lives? Usually physics, unless they diversify into quantitative finance or something else :-). If you end up working in a university, you will have to teach. If you get into a research lab, then you won't..but then you may no

And how much do they earn approximately?

Sorry, I have no idea. IMHO, it's also one of those things which shouldn't deter you from doing a phd in physics if that is what you really want to do :-)

 

[maverick280857]

Hey maverick, I read some of your other posts and saw you went from EE to physics. I'm an EE and curious about how difficult the switch was.

Academically, it wasn't difficult. But it was a silly PR/HR job (still is, sometimes) to convince people that I really knew my physics, and wasn't intending to credit a course just because I had been absolutely thrilled reading The Elegant Universe. :-)

Did you take many physics classes during your EE undergrad?

I took two courses on quantum mechanics, one course on special and general relativity, one course on quantum field theory and one course on particle physics, all from the physics department. These courses, especially QM, helped me immensely in EE too. If you have limited options, you should definitely take QM and if possible, study QFT.

Did you do any undergrad research in physics or EE? Is there anything you would have done differently?

If by research you mean publishable research, then no. I did some project work in both EE as well as physics, and my senior thesis involved a fair amount of both. So, that's definitely one thing I would have done differently -- exploring an REU, doing publishable research in a focused way, and visiting more places to do summer research. From the point of view of getting into a grad school for physics, these things do more become important if you're not a native physics student.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

What do you mean by non-educational institutes? Pure science usually has limited (if any) immediate applications, and research into it is usually pursued in universities. Also I don't know what you mean by "fundamental research" versus not-so-fundamental research. I assume by fundamental you mean stuff that's not geared toward industrial applications.

By non-educational institutes, I mean institutes where degree programs are not offered and still they do research, like NASA (I assume NASA is not into providing bachelors or PhD degree program).
Somebody told me that things like research in quantum physics (like telepathy or quantum computer), dark energy, dark matter, time travel, etc. (all these things, I call as "fundamental research") have hardly any industrial application at this stage. I think if that is the case, why would any company invest its man power, money and other resources in it, am I right? I think you realize now what kind of research I wish to go into. For instance Mr. Ronald Mallett from Univesity of Connecticut made a model of time machine in 2006 although he didn't make a full-fledged time machine for reasons I am not aware of.

What do they do for the rest of their lives? Usually physics, unless they diversify into quantitative finance or something else :-). If you end up working in a university, you will have to teach. If you get into a research lab, then you won't..but then you may no

I am keen to work in a research lab (that's what I mean by "non-educational research institute") so that I won't have to teach and I can do research full-time. But do you know any research lab where I can do kinds of research I mentioned above?

Sorry, I have no idea. IMHO, it's also one of those things which shouldn't deter you from doing a phd in physics if that is what you really want to do :-)

Yes. Nothing can stop me from going into Physics research. I know I'll earn at least to live a comfortable life if not very luxurious. But I am just curious to know about salary and all. I read on some websites that a PhD physicist earn about US$80000 per annum and just wanted to confirm it.

 

[maverick280857]

Somebody told me that things like research in quantum physics (like telepathy or quantum computer), dark energy, dark matter, time travel, etc. (all these things, I call as "fundamental research") have hardly any industrial application at this stage. I think if that is the case, why would any company invest its man power, money and other resources in it, am I right?

I think you posed and answered your question yourself.

Telepathy and time travel are mostly pseudoscientific, whereas quantum computing is a well established albeit under-development area of physics. It is absurd to club them together. Quantum physics has nothing to do with 'telepathy' as far as I know

I am keen to work in a research lab (that's what I mean by "non-educational research institute") so that I won't have to teach and I can do research full-time.

First of all, you should realize that you will spend at least a few months of your time teaching, while you're a PhD student. I don't understand why people are unwilling to pursue a career in teaching, especially when it is widely established that teaching closes the loop in your own learning.

Nevertheless, I think we're getting too ahead of ourselves...you will be doing research full time as a postdoc (which is a job in every way, btw). And then you can enroll as a research professor, or a scientist in an existing laboratory at a university, if you so wish.

But do you know any research lab where I can do kinds of research I mentioned above?

There may be a few places still around which are able to balance fundamental research with applied research enough so that advancements in the latter fund the former, and there are a few benefactors interested in giving their money to them. But given the economic situation, I do not see them flourishing in the next 5-10 years. Teaching is usually perceived as a duty to academia.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Telepathy and time travel are mostly pseudoscientific, whereas quantum computing is a well established albeit under-development area of physics. It is absurd to club them together. Quantum physics has nothing to do with 'telepathy' as far as I know

Everybody knows that time travel is possible at high speed or near very massive bodies. All satellites, space ships etc. travel in time (might be few nano or microseconds per second which is significant enough to distort communication frequency and designer of satellites take care of this). It's just that we have to find a third way of time travel which is feasible and give much more noticeable results. And who knows, somebody might just discover it. Last year, I saw one hour program on Discovery channel (or National Geographic, I don't remember) about time travel. They interviewed many scientists who are working on this. I have one hour video of that. I can upload if you are interested in watching it.

Regarding telepathy, while studying "Quantum entanglement", I saw that if we make two particles which are quantum entangled (may be by process reverse of annihilation), take one particle to India and other to USA, and do something to particle in India, then wave function of particle in USA collapses immediately. Information is traveled at an infinite speed (even more than speed of light). Nobody knows how, but it is "telepathy" and I think this will change the complete current telecommunication technology. Watch this 1 minute animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh8uZUzuRhk"

First of all, you should realize that you will spend at least a few months of your time teaching, while you're a PhD student. I don't understand why people are unwilling to pursue a career in teaching, especially when it is widely established that teaching closes the loop in your own learning.

Actually I love teaching. I did teach systems programming in a Pune based institute during my bachelors. It's just that I am keen to devote maximum time of my life in during research. After all, nature gives us "only" around 50 years to do something! :)

Nevertheless, I think we're getting too ahead of ourselves...you will be doing research full time as a postdoc (which is a job in every way, btw). And then you can enroll as a research professor, or a scientist in an existing laboratory at a university, if you so wish.

Okay. Thank you so much for the guidance. Your advice and information is indeed useful for me.

 

[maverick280857]

Based on everything you have written here since your first post, I think it would be best for you to spend time at a university within the country first improving your hold on undergrad physics, before applying to grad school in the US. Popular science is a good way to develop an interest in physics, especially the "hot" areas, but a firm grasp on the ground is simply unavoidable if you want to pursue any kind of serious research in a sustained way (as you say you do).

The pillars are: classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, classical electrodynamics and statistical mechanics. Anything newer or fancy can be safely (and ideally) postponed to a later stage. If you are unable to pursue these yourself to the level of adequacy necessary for taking (and passing) the qualifying examination (not the PGRE) at a physics grad school of your choice, then you are not yet fit to directly advance to grad school for physics. Remember that you have to make up for a full year or two of advanced undergrad physics courses you did not take. This is what ZapperZ suggested, and I totally agree with him.

SINP has a 1 year initiation program which might help, and spending time as an RA in (say) TIFR, HRI, IMSc, CMI while taking their courses on these subjects may be even more beneficial. Also, how about walking over to the physics department at IITB (in your neighborhood) and auditing classes there for a year or so, while doing a project to learn things while you prepare for grad school..

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Based on everything you have written here since your first post, I think it would be best for you to spend time at a university within the country first improving your hold on undergrad physics, before applying to grad school in the US. Popular science is a good way to develop an interest in physics, especially the "hot" areas, but a firm grasp on the ground is simply unavoidable if you want to pursue any kind of serious research in a sustained way (as you say you do).

The pillars are: classical mechanics, quantum mechanics, classical electrodynamics and statistical mechanics. Anything newer or fancy can be safely (and ideally) postponed to a later stage. If you are unable to pursue these yourself to the level of adequacy necessary for taking (and passing) the qualifying examination (not the PGRE) at a physics grad school of your choice, then you are not yet fit to directly advance to grad school for physics. Remember that you have to make up for a full year or two of advanced undergrad physics courses you did not take. This is what ZapperZ suggested, and I totally agree with him.

I am not one of those who just get amazed by things like time travel or telepathy and all and go to pursue career in physics. I'll tell you what I have studied, please advice me than, if you still say the same, I'll do it. I have studied all pillars you said. I have watched lectures and solved almost all assignments and exams (correctly) give in this MIT Open Course Ware Physics bachelor program:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/
for following courses:
8.01 Physics I Classical Mechanics
8.02 Physics II Electricity and Magnetism
8.03 Physics III: Vibrations and Waves
8.04 Quantum Physics I
8.044 Statistical Physics I
I also did read and understand almost every page of following books (and solved many problems correctly given after every chapter):
Physics for Engineers and Scientists by Hans C. Ohanian, John T. Markert (classical mechanics volume)
Physics for Scientists and Engineers with Modern Physics by Douglas C. Giancoli (all volumes including electricity and magnetism, thermodynamics, modern physics and excluding some classical mechanics chapters since I already read those from above book)
An Introduction to Quantum Physics by A.P.French and Edwin F. Taylor (dedicated 650 pages quantum physics book)
and these books partly:
Thermal Physics by Ralph Baierlein (dedicated 400 pages thermodynamics book)
After doing all that, I feel that I can solve any problem of MIT Physics bachelors exam (of courses mentioned above) and any problem given after any chapter of above mentioned books. After my engineering, I spent 3 years in my hometown (due to family reasons and I am from a very small city) during which I did all these. Please advise me now, is it appropriate for me to go for PhD (or masters cum PhD program) in US university, or should I go for PhD program in IISc, Bangalore or something else.

SINP has a 1 year initiation program which might help, and spending time as an RA in (say) TIFR, HRI, IMSc, CMI while taking their courses on these subjects may be even more beneficial. Also, how about walking over to the physics department at IITB (in your neighborhood) and auditing classes there for a year or so, while doing a project to learn things while you prepare for grad school..

I already applied for RA in some institutes and one Pune based physics research company also called me for interview and they were very impressed by my knowledge. They also offered my internship but I didn't join since now I am studying for general GRE in my hometown. I'll surely join some institute in the future.

 

[mal4mac]

What about the UK? Given the historical connections it might be an easier "fit" than the US, and you might find it easier to get scholarships. Check out MSc conversion courses. Search for specific subjects that interest you, some are very specialised and at the border between physics & computing engineering, e.g:

http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/masters/msc-nano

Start the Week (9am, Radio 4, BBC...) had a fascinating discussion of Indian science, there's a book out called "Geek Nation: How Indian Science is Taking Over the World" - India seems a great place to study science at the moment! So why move? One answer might be because *we want you* - one fact from this program - 1/5 of UK NHS doctors are of Indian origin! (Including my GP...)

 

[arpit2agrawal]

India seems a great place to study science at the moment! So why move?

Top 500 universities of the world has just 2 universities of India:
Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore (rank 301-400)
Indian Institute of Technology, Kharakpur (rank 401-500)
while there are lots and lots of universities from US.
Check out here:
http://www.arwu.org/"
I think studying from even any of the top 50 US universities is far better than studying from India, as far as research career is concerned. I know, I know, it depends more on "you" as a student rather than university and all. But university infrastructure, professors, students, connections, etc. also do matter a lot. If I won't get US then my second option is UK. Let's see.

 

[DrummingAtom]

I took two courses on quantum mechanics, one course on special and general relativity, one course on quantum field theory and one course on particle physics, all from the physics department. These courses, especially QM, helped me immensely in EE too. If you have limited options, you should definitely take QM and if possible, study QFT.

Thanks so much, that's very helpful.

I notice you didn't mention E&M from the physics department, that's the one class I'm mildly worried about. Because most physics majors say that E&M was a very difficult class and usually the class that "learned what real physics is like." I'm scheduled to take E&M from the EE department in about a year. I want to try to convince my adviser to let me take it from the physics department but not sure if that's going to happen. Has E&M, in particular, caused any problems from a physics standpoint?

Regardless, I'll probably pick up a minor in physics and then have to take E&M from the physics department anyway. Just curious as to what your experience has been. Thanks again.

 

[maverick280857]

I notice you didn't mention E&M from the physics department, that's the one class I'm mildly worried about.

My school does not have an official minor program in physics, so I took all the physics courses I could credit, and audited the others. I audited a part of the Jackson-based EM course, but I found that I had covered the major material in my EE E&M class, the SR/GR course and the introductory QFT course. The Physics EM class did not have time to cover the really deep parts of Jackson such as scattering, diffraction, etc. so there seemed to be little point in persisting with it beyond a stage.

So, I spent most of my vacations working on small projects while the major focus was on reading Sakurai, Jackson, Goldstein, etc. and working out the problems. I figured if I wasn't able to do a formal course on everything, I might as well pick something up on my own. And my physics professors were generally very supportive and felt I could do the advanced courses well without having formally taken every prerequisite course on paper.

When you asked me if I could've done something differently then yes, maybe I could've spent the time reading books over vacations and learning stuff by myself, on REUs or publications, or something which would probably help you more in the propulsion stage to grad school. Speaking for myself, I do not find myself squirming from any math expression in a theoretical physics paper or book now, so I think the extra effort I put in myself was worth it, despite the apparent misuse of the vacations :-)

Because most physics majors say that E&M was a very difficult class and usually the class that "learned what real physics is like."

In my undergrad institution, Jackson and Griffiths are used for the EM course. I already took the Griffiths course in my freshman year, and then took an EE class on EM, which was based on Cheng, Ramo, etc. The real problem most people face imo, is the lack of a strong background for solving the differential equations which routinely appear in all kinds of boundary value problems. Having said that, Jackson is hard.

I'm scheduled to take E&M from the EE department in about a year. I want to try to convince my adviser to let me take it from the physics department but not sure if that's going to happen. Has E&M, in particular, caused any problems from a physics standpoint?

There are differences in both approaches. The EE course will be quite theoretical, but the focus will be on plotting the fields, solving relatively simpler problems, and not usually discussing things about energy. Also, the EE courses may not delve into radiation, which you do need if you want to really understand antennas. So you'll have to pick that stuff up from Jackson or other books. Also, the EE course will deal with transmission lines a lot typically, and the connection between transmission lines and circuit theory, lumped and distributed elements, etc. These are invaluable things for physicists to know, esp if they are working on nanoscale systems these days. But usually physics courses do not teach any of this.

Regardless, I'll probably pick up a minor in physics and then have to take E&M from the physics department anyway. Just curious as to what your experience has been.

I have an unconventional suggestion: if you can take both the EE course as well as the Jackson course, do it! Usually the physics course will leave you hating all the math, because you will probably have absolutely no intuition for the physics after wading through the dark arts of algebraic manipulations.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Hey maverick280857, did you miss my post #37?

 

[maverick280857]

Hey maverick280857, did you miss my post #37?

I didn't. But I'm not sure what response you expected from me.

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Please advise me now, is it appropriate for me to go for PhD (or masters cum PhD program) in US university, or should I go for PhD program in IISc, Bangalore or something else.

I am really confused. I think I'll appear for both, general GRE and GATE and check to see which institution I get admit from and than take decision accordingly. I am applying for fall 2012. I'll post names of institution I get admit from, next year in this thread. May be then I'll get proper advice.

 

[DrummingAtom]

Thanks so much maverick, that was very helpful. It means a lot knowing that you've gone through this.

 

[maverick280857]

Thanks so much maverick, that was very helpful. It means a lot knowing that you've gone through this.

If physics is what you want to do eventually, just go ahead and study physics for your undergrad. Switching is possible, but neither assured nor guaranteed, and it isn't a good idea to aspire switching from day 1.

 

[DrummingAtom]

If physics is what you want to do eventually, just go ahead and study physics for your undergrad. Switching is possible, but neither assured nor guaranteed, and it isn't a good idea to aspire switching from day 1.

I know what you mean. It's still early in my undergrad so I haven't committed to either, I'll know which fits better after I get into some research group. I'm really in interested in the most physics-y EE fields and not just physics itself. All in all, I'd rather be slightly more engineer than physicist because then I would be a better fit for industry, which is my goal.

Just out of curiosity, when did you know you wanted to switch? Or should I say what happened that made you want to switch? Was it the late night physics problem sets? Haha

 

[maverick280857]

Just out of curiosity, when did you know you wanted to switch? Or should I say what happened that made you want to switch? Was it the late night physics problem sets? Haha

Nothing quite so dramatic. I wanted to study physics as a freshman, but didn't quite like the undergrad program and so stayed in EE. I thought of switching once, but I love electronics just as much as quantum field theory, and it wasn't something the physicists were able to do in my school ;-)

 

[arpit2agrawal]

Got following scores:

Subject GRE Physics:
940/990

General GRE:
800/800 quant
340/800 verbal
3.0 analytical writing

Just to remind, I have done Bachelors of Engineering in Computer Science.

Any chance of getting admit into PhD Physics program of top university like Harvard?

 

[TMFKAN64]

So, reiterating... you have a very good physics GRE score, but you have not taken any upper division physics courses at your university and have not done any physics research as an undergraduate?

I'm sorry, but you just don't look like a top prospect to me unless I am wrong about your background.

A good score could help you get in *somewhere*, of course, and I wouldn't give up on that.