Going backwards: finding a function from differential

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining whether the expression \(4xy^{3}\cdot dx+6x^{2}y^{2}\cdot dy\) can be a total differential of a function with two variables. Participants explore methods for finding such a function, the concept of exact differentials, and provide examples of expressions that may or may not be total differentials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the expression and suggests that integration may be involved in finding a function.
  • Another participant identifies the partial derivatives from the expression and proposes that the function can be expressed as \(f(x,y) = 2x^{2}y^{3} + c\), where \(c\) is an arbitrary constant.
  • A different participant introduces the concept of testing for exactness by comparing the partial derivatives of the terms in the expression.
  • Some participants request examples of expressions that are not total differentials, seeking to understand the criteria for such cases.
  • One participant provides an example of a modified expression and demonstrates that it does not satisfy the conditions for being an exact differential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the original expression is a total differential, with some proposing a function while others question the conditions under which a differential is considered exact. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the original expression's status as a total differential.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the Schwartz theorem and the conditions for exact differentials, indicating that the discussion involves nuanced mathematical criteria that may not be fully resolved.

Yankel
Messages
390
Reaction score
0
Hello,

I have this expression:

\[4xy^{3}\cdot dx+6x^{2}y^{2}\cdot dy\]

and I am asked to say if this expression can be a total differential of a function with two variables. If so, I need to find the function.

How can I do it ? It must involve integration somehow...

Thank you !
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Yankel said:
Hello,

I have this expression:

\[4xy^{3}\cdot dx+6x^{2}y^{2}\cdot dy\]

and I am asked to say if this expression can be a total differential of a function with two variables. If so, I need to find the function.

How can I do it ? It must involve integration somehow...

Thank you !

You have two differential eqution...

$\displaystyle \frac{\partial {f}}{\partial{x}} = 4\ x\ y^{3}\ (1)$

$\displaystyle \frac{\partial {f}}{\partial{y}} = 6\ x^{2}\ y^{2}\ (2)$

... and the solution both (1) an (2) is $\displaystyle f(x,y) = 2\ x^{2}\ y^{3} + c $ [c is an arbitrary constant...], that is the requested function...Kind regards$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
Last edited:
If you are given the equation:

$$4xy^3\,dx+6x^2y^2\,dy=0$$

Then you may test for exactness by seeing if:

$$\frac{\partial}{\partial y}\left(4xy^3\right)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}\left(6x^2y^2\right)$$

Is this condition true?
 
Thank you both. Can you think of an expression of the form Adx+Bdy which is not a total differential of a function, so I know how an answer of 'no' to the original question looks like ?
 
Yankel said:
Thank you both. Can you think of an expression of the form Adx+Bdy which is not a total differential of a function, so I know how an answer of 'no' to the original question looks like ?

An expression like...

$\displaystyle \alpha(x,y)\ dx + \beta(x,y)\ d y \ (1)$

.. . is called 'exact differential' if it exists a function f(x,y) so that is...

$\displaystyle \frac{\partial {f}}{\partial{x}}= \alpha (x,y)$

... and...

$\displaystyle \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}= \beta(x,y)$

If the conditions of the Schwartz theorem are satisfied, the a sufficient condition for the existence of f(x, y) is...

$\displaystyle \frac{\partial{\alpha}}{\partial{y}} = \frac{\partial{\beta}}{\partial{x}}\ (2)$

Kind regards$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
If you don't mind me here :o consider $$\color{black}4xy^3 \, dx + (6x^2y^2 \color{red}+x^2 \color{black}) \, dy.$$ Then $$\frac{\partial}{\partial y} 4xy^3 = 12xy^2 \text{ and } \frac{\partial}{\partial x} 6x^2y^2 +x^2 = 12xy^2 + 2x,$$ therefore this is not an exact differential.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K