GR vs quantum vacuum Lorentz invariance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between spacetime and the quantum vacuum, specifically focusing on their Lorentz invariance properties. Participants explore whether spacetime can be considered Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum, the implications of curvature caused by mass, and the nature of global versus local invariance in different geometries.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that spacetime is locally Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum, but question the implications of this invariance in relation to curvature caused by mass.
  • Others argue that the invariance of the quantum vacuum is a matter of global translation invariance, which depends on the spacetime geometry rather than being an intrinsic property of the vacuum.
  • A participant asks what kind of spacetime geometry possesses global translation invariance, suggesting Minkowski spacetime as a candidate.
  • Questions are raised about whether the quantum vacuum exists within spacetime or vice versa, with one participant noting that the question lacks a well-defined answer.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for a transformation between spacetime and the quantum vacuum, with some expressing confusion about the meaning of such a transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of Lorentz invariance in relation to spacetime and the quantum vacuum. Multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and implications of global versus local invariance.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include unclear definitions of terms like "global translation invariance" and the ambiguous nature of the relationship between spacetime and the quantum vacuum. The questions posed suggest unresolved assumptions about the properties of these concepts.

mieral
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is spacetime Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum?

They say the quantum vacuum is Lorentz invariant.. you can't locate it at any place.. but if spacetime manifold is also Lorentz invariant and you can't locate it at any place.. how come the Earth can curve the spacetime around the Earth and not some exoplanet light years away.

And if spacetime is not Lorentz invariant like vacuum, then what are the limited invariance it obeys and how do you make it Lorentz invariant?
 
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mieral said:
is spacetime Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum?

Spacetime is locally Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum, yes.

mieral said:
They say the quantum vacuum is Lorentz invariant.. you can't locate it at any place

That's not local Lorentz invariance, that's global translation invariance. Whether global translation invariance holds depends on the spacetime geometry; it's not an intrinsic property of the quantum vacuum.

mieral said:
how come the Earth can curve the spacetime around the Earth and not some exoplanet light years away

Because the spacetime geometry due to the Earth is not globally translation invariant; it looks different at different places.
 
PeterDonis said:
Spacetime is locally Lorentz invariant like the quantum vacuum, yes.
That's not local Lorentz invariance, that's global translation invariance. Whether global translation invariance holds depends on the spacetime geometry; it's not an intrinsic property of the quantum vacuum.

a) What kind of spacetime geometry has global translation invariance?

b) Is the quantum vacuum inside spacetime? Or is spacetime inside the quantum vacuum?

c) One has global translation invariance.. the other hasn't. Shouldn't it be consistent they should have a symmetry much like electric/magnetic field, space/time, etc.?

d) Is there a transformation that can transform spacetime to quantum vacuum and quantum vacuum into spacetime.. is this one of the goals of quantum gravity?

Because the spacetime geometry due to the Earth is not globally translation invariant; it looks different at different places.
 
mieral said:
What kind of spacetime geometry has global translation invariance?

Minkowski spacetime is the simplest example. If we limit it to space translations, any homogeneous spacetime, i.e., all of the FRW spacetimes used in cosmology.

mieral said:
Is the quantum vacuum inside spacetime? Or is spacetime inside the quantum vacuum?

Mu. (The question is not well posed so it doesn't have a well-defined answer.)

mieral said:
One has global translation invariance.. the other hasn't.

Where are you getting that from?

mieral said:
Is there a transformation that can transform spacetime to quantum vacuum and quantum vacuum into spacetime

I don't understand what such a thing would mean.
 

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