Gravity Lensing & Photons: Massless Interaction?

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    Gravity Photons
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction of photons with gravity, particularly in the context of gravitational lensing, and the implications of mass and the Higgs field on photon behavior. Participants explore theoretical aspects of massless particles, energy, and the effects of different media on light propagation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how photons, being massless, can be affected by gravity, particularly in gravitational lensing.
  • There is a suggestion that photons may not interact with the Higgs field, allowing them to travel at the speed of light.
  • One participant proposes that slowing down light in degenerate matter could imply that photons gain mass and interact with the Higgs field.
  • Another participant clarifies that gravity acts on massless particles if they possess momentum, and that energy and momentum distort space-time, leading to gravitational effects.
  • It is noted that photons always travel at the speed of light, and misconceptions about their speed in dispersive media are addressed.
  • Some participants express confusion about the concept of mass in relation to photons and the distinction between different types of mass.
  • A later reply mentions that shining light can exert a force, suggesting that photons can have an effect despite being massless.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of photons, their interaction with the Higgs field, and the implications of light behavior in various media. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the distinctions between different types of mass and the effects of various fields on photons. Some assumptions about the behavior of light in different materials are not fully explored.

illconductor
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hi. so if a photon doesn't have a mass why can you attract it with gravity as in the case of gravity lensing. does some quality of the photon allows it not to be affected by the higgs field and therefore has no mass and travel at the speed of light.?

and having said that. in degenerate matter light slows down, would you say that since superluminal travel requires no mass, if you slowed down light the photon would gain mass and interect with the higgs field.

or would you say that the higgs field and electromag field are at right angles in a vector sense and never interact... or both and the universe freaks out and turns off the higgs field.. just joking??
 
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illconductor said:
hi. so if a photon doesn't have a mass why can you attract it with gravity as in the case of gravity lensing. does some quality of the photon allows it not to be affected by the higgs field and therefore has no mass and travel at the speed of light.?

and having said that. in degenerate matter light slows down, would you say that since superluminal travel requires no mass, if you slowed down light the photon would gain mass and interect with the higgs field.

Please read several entries in the FAQ thread.

Zz.
 
yeah i get that if a phton has energy it has mass in some way. I am not a scientist so i didnt get the destincttion between the different kinds of masses, i assume you can't weigh a photon with a set of scales .. what i mean is it doesn't have a mass that you could feel pushing against your hand towards earth.
 
illconductor said:
hi. so if a photon doesn't have a mass why can you attract it with gravity as in the case of gravity lensing.
Gravity doesn't only act on massive particles, it can also acts on massless particles (provided that they have a momentum). Put simply, energy and momentum distort space-time and it is this disortion that results in gravitation.

All particles (not under the influence of any forces such as EM) follow geodesics and the geodesics are not generally flat in non-euclidean (curved) space-time.
illconductor said:
does some quality of the photon allows it not to be affected by the higgs field and therefore has no mass and travel at the speed of light.?
A massive photon would contradict the requirement of a local gauge symmetry.
illconductor said:
and having said that. in degenerate matter light slows down, would you say that since superluminal travel requires no mass, if you slowed down light the photon would gain mass and interect with the higgs field.
Photon's do not slow down, they always travel at c. It is a common misconception that photons slow down in dispersive media. Check out the FAQ sticky in this forum for more information.
 
thanks
 
ahh i c. but the material i am talking about is a degenerative one like the material of a neutron star or similar. .. is it the same kind of thing absorption and emittance?

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1999/02.18/light.html
 
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illconductor said:
yeah i get that if a phton has energy it has mass in some way. I am not a scientist so i didnt get the destincttion between the different kinds of masses, i assume you can't weigh a photon with a set of scales .. what i mean is it doesn't have a mass that you could feel pushing against your hand towards earth.

I'm not sure that's quite right. In principle, if I shine a light on you, you'll feel a push.
 

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