Gravity & Time Dilation: Quantum Level Questions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravity and time dilation, particularly at the quantum level. Participants explore whether gravity exists at this scale and the implications of time dilation on objects, including those not made of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if gravity is an effect of time dilation due to the distance from the bottom to the top of an object, then gravity may not exist at the quantum level.
  • Another participant challenges this idea, questioning the reasoning behind the assertion that gravity wouldn't exist at the quantum level.
  • Some participants propose that if gravity is indeed a result of time dilation, then objects not made of matter might not experience gravity, raising questions about the nature of gravity itself.
  • It is noted that light, which is not matter, does experience gravity, complicating the argument regarding non-matter objects.
  • A participant critiques the simplification of gravity's relationship with time dilation, arguing that such simplifications do not capture the full complexity of General Relativity (GR) and questioning the implications for the paths of light rays.
  • There is a reference to the inadequacy of popular science sources for understanding GR, with a suggestion that more rigorous academic resources are necessary for a proper understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between gravity and time dilation, with no consensus reached regarding the existence of gravity at the quantum level or the implications of time dilation for non-matter objects.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions that are not fully articulated, and there are unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of gravity and time dilation in the context of quantum mechanics.

curiouschuck
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TL;DR
Time dilation and gravity on the quantum level
If gravity is the affect of time dilation because of the distance from the bottom of an object to the top then wouldn’t that mean that gravity doesn’t exist at the quantum level?
 
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Gravity is not that. But even if it was, why do you think that it wouldn't exist at the quantum level?
 
Demystifier said:
Gravity is not that. But even if it was, why do you think that it wouldn't exist at the quantum level?
 
I’ve heard some postulate that gravity is the affect of time dilation on objects because of the difference in spacetime from one end of the object to the other. If this is true then wouldn’t that mean that objects not made of matter wouldn’t experience gravity?
 
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curiouschuck said:
If this is true then wouldn’t that mean that objects not made of matter wouldn’t experience gravity?
Light is not matter yet it experiences gravity.
 
curiouschuck said:
I’ve heard some postulate that gravity is the affect of time dilation on objects because of the difference in spacetime from one end of the object to the other. If this is true then wouldn’t that mean that objects not made of matter wouldn’t experience gravity?
If <some random assumption> leads to <nonsense>.

Then, the sensible thing to do is to reject the random assumption! Not to presume that the nonsense is true.

For example:

If fish can't survive in salt water, does this mean there are no fish in the sea?
 
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PeroK said:
For example:

If fish can't survive in salt water, does this mean there are no fish in the sea?
I think his question is more like:
If fish can't survive in salt water, does this mean there are no snakes in rivers?
 
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I'm talking about this


Is this true? If so, then (my original question)
 
curiouschuck said:
I'm talking about this


Is this true? If so, then (my original question)

That's a popular science simplification for the purposes of trying to explain GR to a lay audience. One of the problems with such simplifications is that they do not form a true or consistent picture of the whole theory.

A case in point is that if gravity depends only on gravitational time dilation, then what do we say about the paths of light rays?

The video's simplified version of GR, therefore, cannot be the whole story. There must be more to GR than time dilation! And there is.
 
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curiouschuck said:
I'm talking about this
This is not a valid reference; as @PeroK has pointed out, it's a pop science source, and pop science sources are not good sources for learning actual science. You need to be looking at an introductory textbook on GR if you want to learn how GR actually works.

Since no valid reference has been given, this thread is closed.
 

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