Greeks vs Pythagoras: Universe Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between ancient Greek cosmological theories, particularly those of Pythagoras, and contemporary understandings of the universe. It explores the mathematical foundations of these theories and their implications for the structure of the cosmos, including the solar system and planetary motions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Greek model of the universe involves spheres within spheres, but question how this compares to Pythagorean beliefs.
  • Others mention that subsequent Greek philosophers sought to improve upon the Pythagorean model, particularly in addressing issues like retrograde motion of planets.
  • One participant highlights that Pythagoras viewed the Earth as a perfect sphere at the center of the universe, contrasting this with modern views.
  • Another participant references Kepler's attempts to relate planetary orbits to perfect solids, suggesting a historical connection to mathematical aesthetics in Greek thought.
  • There is a humorous interjection regarding irrational numbers and their relation to the Pythagorean theorem, reflecting on the complexities of mathematical concepts.
  • A later reply discusses Kepler's use of Platonic solids in his early explanations of planetary orbits, indicating a historical exploration of mathematical relationships in cosmology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of Greek cosmological theories, particularly regarding Pythagoras and Kepler. There is no consensus on the specifics of these beliefs or their implications, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions reference the limitations of the Pythagorean model in explaining certain astronomical phenomena, such as retrograde motion, but do not resolve these issues. The conversation also touches on the historical context of mathematical aesthetics influencing Greek thought.

wateroksnmud
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I understand the greek theory of the universe (Sphere's within sphere's within sphere's) but other than the fact the universe is based on mathematics, is there any other variations in the belief of the universe from the pythagoras?
 
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Thread moved to General Discussion forum - does not pertain to our current understanding of science, math, or technology.
 
Redbelly98 said:
Thread moved to General Discussion forum - does not pertain to our current understanding of science, math, or technology.


Not trying to come off wrong but it's intro to physics. Has to do with the introduction to out solar system and how we came about finding the distance and size's of the sun and moon which lead to the findinf og gravitational pull.

The book it's out of is Physics : Concepts and Connections
 
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Other greek philosophers and scientists tried to improve on the Pythagorean model (which failed to explain retrograde motions of the planets). The Greeks were preoccupied with notions of mathematical aesthetics however which hindered their progression.
 
If this is the question:

wateroksnmud said:
... other than the fact the universe is based on mathematics, is there any other variations in the belief of the universe from the pythagoras?

then I'd answer yes, there are many variations between what we believe now and the view Phythagoras! For one, Pythagoras had the Earth as a perfect sphere, located at the center of the universe.

The Pythagoras view is described in a little more detail at this site:
http://sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe20.htm
Scroll almost halfway down the page, or just search the page for "pythag". If you read the description there, you can compare/contrast it to what we know about the solar system and universe today.
 
Hail to the spider, irrational numbers don't exist! Oh wait, Pythagorean theorem, yes they do, damn. But you should still abstain from beans.
 
"1.414213562373... 0950488 .. 016887242097... *sigh* screw it! You're going overboard!"
 
wateroksnmud said:
is there any other variations in the belief

Kepler tried for years to find a correspondence between the orbits of the planets and the "perfect" solids (cube = 6 squares , tetrahedron = 4 equilateral trianges, dodecahedron = 12 pentagons, etc.) I wonder if there are any original sources available.
 
I'm not aware of any original sources but it is documented that Kepler's early attempts at explaining the ratios between planetary orbits involved the use of platonic solids built around he orbital shells.
 

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