Group theory : inverse of a map.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in group theory, specifically concerning the inverse of a map defined between subgroups of a finite group. The original poster is tasked with describing the preimage of a product of elements from two subgroups.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the preimage of the map and seeks hints to progress. Some participants question the validity of the map's invertibility, citing examples that suggest it may not be one-to-one. Others clarify the terminology around the concept of an inverse in this context.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the definitions and implications of the map and its preimage. There is a recognition of potential misunderstandings regarding the notation and definitions used in the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the definition of the inverse in relation to individual elements versus subsets, as well as the implications of the map's properties on its invertibility.

josh146
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Homework Statement


Let [tex]H[/tex], [tex]K[/tex] be subgroups of a finite group [tex]G[/tex]. Consider the map, [tex]f : H \times K \rightarrow HK : (h,k)\rightarrow hk[/tex]. Describe [tex]f^{-1}(hk)[/tex] in terms of [tex]h[/tex], [tex]k[/tex] and the elements of [tex]H\cap K[/tex].


Homework Equations


[tex]HK = \{hk : h \in H, k \in K \}[/tex]

[tex]f^{-1}(hk)=\{ (h',k') : f(h',k')=hk \}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution


I should be able to get somewhere with this but I can't. Can someone give me one or two hints to start me off?
 
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I think you'd better ask your professor about this and here's why: Based on what you've written, [itex]f[/itex] shouldn't even have an inverse. Here's a simple example to show you what I mean. Let [itex]G=\mathbb{Z}_4[/itex] and let [itex]H=K=<2>[/itex], the subgroup generated by [itex]2\in\mathbb{Z}_2[/itex]. Your map does the following.

[tex]f(0,2)=0\cdot 2 =0[/tex]
[tex]f(2,0)=2\cdot 0 =0[/tex]

Since [itex]f(0,2)=f(2,0)[/itex] the map is not 1-1 and is therefore not invertible. Something is wrong here.
 
Sorry, I shouldn't have written 'inverse' in the title. For this map, [tex]f^{-1}[/tex] is defined as the 'preimage' of the map.
 
Then your problem still makes no sense. You cannot prove anything about "[tex]f^{-1}(hk)[/tex]" because [tex]f^{-1}[/tex] is not defined for individual members of the group, only subsets. Did you mean [tex]f^{-1}(\{hk\})[/tex]?

In the example Tom Mattson gave, [tex]f^{-1}(0)[/tex] is not defined but [tex]f^{-1}(\{0\})= \{(0,2),(2,0)\}[/tex].
 
I'm pretty sure that [tex]f^{-1}(a)[/tex] is used as shorthand for [tex]f^{-1}({a})[/tex].

I'm still having trouble doing the question though. I'm sure it's simple but I'm not seeing how to define the set.
 

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