: Guass's Law and surface integrals

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Gauss's Law and surface integrals in the context of calculating total electric flux for various geometries, including spherical surfaces, infinite planes, and long thin wires. Participants are addressing the setup of integrals necessary for these calculations, particularly in light of the original poster's upcoming exam and their limited experience with the relevant coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster seeks help with formulas for total electric flux enclosed, specifically for spherical surfaces, infinite planes, and long thin wires, expressing urgency due to an upcoming exam.
  • One participant suggests that understanding the metrics of spherical and cylindrical coordinates is essential for setting up the integrals.
  • Another participant mentions that for primary surfaces, the surface integral can often be simplified and may not require full integration, indicating that the radial component of the electric field can be multiplied by the area of the surface.
  • There is a discussion about the cancellation of parameters in the equations, emphasizing that the charge inside should not depend on the radius of the arbitrary surface used.
  • One participant notes the variability in notation for spherical coordinates across different physics texts, highlighting potential confusion regarding the angles used in the equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of surface integrals and the notation used in spherical coordinates. There is no consensus on the best approach to set up the integrals for the infinite plane case, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the lack of universal notation for spherical coordinates, which may lead to confusion. There is also an indication that the original poster's understanding of surface integrals is limited, which may affect their ability to apply the discussed concepts effectively.

RogerDodgr
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I'm in need of help. I need the formulas for total-electric-flux enclosed for a final exam *tommorow. My teacher (nice guy but total slacker) never did any handouts, and I am not the quickest to catch on when he tried to explain in about 20 minutes the concept of surface integrals. I was just out of calc II and had absolutely no experience with cylindrical or spherical coordinates.
?
Spherical surface:
flux enclosed =∫[0,2π]∫[0,π](sin0)r^2

infinite plane
flux enclosed =∫[]∫[]

Long thin wire
flux enclosed =∫[0,c]∫[0,2π]
?


I am the only student in calc. physics mixed with a group of non-calc students. Surface intergrals did not come up in calc III until about one week ago, and now I'm under pressure. The physics teacher made it clear 'he would make it easy on me', but I just needed to be able to calculate flux enclosed with E and dA given in the cases of:
1) infinite flat sheet
2) point charge/ spherical surface
3) long thin wire

I just need to be able to set up the integrals. But I can not find the formulas. I'm in desperate need of just the integrals without a lot of extranious information. I tried at the top to fill in what I could.
 
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you're going to need the metrics of sphereical and cylindrical coordinates.

sphere: dr, r*dtheta, r*sin(theta)*dphi

cylindrical: dr, r*dtheta, dz
 
I am not sure about the infinite plane case, but for the others, the surface integral is really easy. because these are what are known as primary surfaces (cylinder in cylindrical coordinates, sphere is sphereical and a box in cartesian) you will probably not even have to integrate. For every Physics II book I have looked at, it is introduced as a surface integral but is then done more easily.

Recall a surface integral can be thought of as a measure of flux, or the amount of a field going into the surface (perpendicularly). For electric fields, in spherical, find the radial component (probably all you have in Physics II), then multiply it by the area of the sphere. For just a sphere when there is only a radial component,

[tex]\iint_R\vec{E}\cdot\hat{n}dS=\int_{\theta=0}^{2\pi}\int_{\phi=0}^{\pi} E*R^2 \sin \phi d\phi d\theta =E*A=4\pi R^2 E[/tex]

It is the same logic for the wire only now you have what is going through the side of the cylinder in addition to the top and bottom. Usually, the top in the bottom can be either ignored by symmetry or because it is an infinite wire.

I hope this helps
 
Last edited:
I realized I should have continued. In these problems, you generally do not want to have the parameters of the surface in your answer. This makes sense because the charge inside shouldn't depend on the radius of your arbitrary surface. Notice in the euqation i put in my above post, the R cancels. Recall that usually, [tex]E\propto\frac{1}{r^2}[/tex], which when r is not changing, is just [tex]E\propto\frac{1}{R^2}[/tex].

For a wire, you will usually have the total charge. Therefore the charge you are using for the E-field is [tex]\frac{q}{L}[/tex] and the area of the cylinder is [tex]2\pi RL[/tex] so the L cancels.
 
Sorry, one more thing. Note that in physics there is not universal notation for the spherical system. The poster above me called the angle from the Z-axis [tex]\theta[/tex] while I called it [tex]\phi[/tex]. It is different in every book. In Shey's Div, Grad, Curl and All That, it is one way while in Sandri Hassani's Mathematical Methods for Students of Physics and Related Field, it is the other way.
 

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