News Health Care Reform - almost a done deal? DONE

[Count Iblis]

The Third World health insurance system will finally be changed to a First World one.

 

[MotoH]

The Third World health insurance system will finally be changed to a First World one.

I didn't know first world nations turned middle class citizens into poor people.

 

[turbo]

I didn't know first world nations turned middle class citizens into poor people.

The US system turns middle-class citizens into poor citizens with every catastrophic illness. The insurance companies dump you when you get sick, and you lose everything to bankruptcy when you can't pay for care or you die. When you are older and more experienced you will gain an appreciation for this. I hope you never develop a debilitating disease, but if you do, you will gain an appreciation for this health-care bill. My wife and I both have some chronic pre-existing conditions, and if she loses her job (and her health insurance), we will never be able to buy health insurance again, at least a rates that won't bankrupt us AND with ruinous caps. So many opponents of health-care reform wave the flag and talk about how the bill is socialism. Funny, it's only socialism if it benefits somebody else.

European countries manage to provide almost universal health-care coverage at about 1/2 the cost per capita of what we spend. If the US cannot do the same, our system deserves to fail.

 

[WhoWee]

Someone just explained to me that Obama needed to include student loan reform in the health care Bill because he's going to need to train a lot of new doctors (that will work for a lot less).

 

[MotoH]

I never said the insurance system should stay they way it is. There are problems with it, and that can be fixed. But now I am paying not only for every low life piece of ****s food stamps and welfare, but their health insurance too! Where is the justice in that?

Yeah you know what, it is me first. And that is how the game of life is played. I've got enough bills to pay for already, and when I need to pay 40% more for someone who sits on their *** all day, gets a cough and goes to the doctor, it brings ME into the hole.

 

[turbo]

Someone just explained to me that Obama needed to include student loan reform in the health care Bill because he's going to need to train a lot of new doctors (that will work for a lot less).

As long as the AMA keeps throttling the graduation/residency rate, we will have shortages of doctors. Maine has a particular problem in this regard. We need general practitioners and family doctors in rural areas. Canada has similar problems, which results in Canadians in rural provinces traveling to the US for specialized care, which the Canadian health care system pays for.

 

[WhoWee]

The US system turns middle-class citizens into poor citizens with every catastrophic illness. The insurance companies dump you when you get sick, and you lose everything to bankruptcy when you can't pay for care or you die. When you are older and more experienced you will gain an appreciation for this. I hope you never develop a debilitating disease, but if you do, you will gain an appreciation for this health-care bill. My wife and I both have some chronic pre-existing conditions, and if she loses her job (and her health insurance), we will never be able to buy health insurance again, at least a rates that won't bankrupt us AND with ruinous caps. So many opponents of health-care reform wave the flag and talk about how the bill is socialism. Funny, it's only socialism if it benefits somebody else.

European countries manage to provide almost universal health-care coverage at about 1/2 the cost per capita of what we spend. If the US cannot do the same, our system deserves to fail.

I'm afraid this Bill is not going to live up to your expectations My Friend. IMO, this Bill will double the cost of health care to working people who don't qualify for public assistance.

Again, the cost per person (to the Government) for Medicare is $850 per month. Also, the Bill does not say that pre-existing conditions can't be rated. What are YOU going to do if you HAVE to purchase a Government plan and they tell you the cost is $2,500/month - or the IRS will come to visit YOU?

I am very concerned this evening.

 

[MotoH]

I'm afraid this Bill is not going to live up to your expectations My Friend. IMO, this Bill will double the cost of health care to working people who don't qualify for public assistance.

Again, the cost per person (to the Government) for Medicare is $850 per month. Also, the Bill does not say that pre-existing conditions can't be rated. What are YOU going to do if you HAVE to purchase a Government plan and they tell you the cost is $2,500/month - or the IRS will come to visit YOU?

I am very concerned this evening.

From what I have heard from my state, if the health care bill passes, for the current plan we have the rates will double, forcing us to move to a cheaper plan which covers less.

 

[WhoWee]

As long as the AMA keeps throttling the graduation/residency rate, we will have shortages of doctors. Maine has a particular problem in this regard. We need general practitioners and family doctors in rural areas. Canada has similar problems, which results in Canadians in rural provinces traveling to the US for specialized care, which the Canadian health care system pays for.

I spoke with someone last week that needs to find a new doctor.

She is on Medicare and her doctor is tired of fighting to get paid. He joined a group of "VIP Providers" who will now require their patients to pay a "VIP Fee" of $1,500 per year to join - or they will no longer be treated.

She's been with the doctor for about 12 years.

 

[MotoH]

Well I guess I should start saving up now to be able to pay for this when I graduate from college.

 

[Office_Shredder]

intrade.com says that the healthcare bill will be passed

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2010/Senate/Maps/Mar21-s.html#1

 

[WhoWee]

It's over - close the thread and turn off the lights (please).

 

[MotoH]

Tough luck. There will be immediate benefits, but as soon as 2016 (not sure if right year) rolls around, we will be paying through the nose for this.

 

[WhoWee]

Tough luck. There will be immediate benefits, but as soon as 2016 (not sure if right year) rolls around, we will be paying through the nose for this.

What "immediate benefits" do you think will be forthcoming - other than tax increases for the next 4 years? Are you referring to the tens of thousands of jobs due to Government expansion?

 

[MotoH]

What "immediate benefits" do you think will be forthcoming - other than tax increases for the next 4 years? Are you referring to the tens of thousands of jobs due to Government expansion?

I was in such a fluster, I put them in the wrong way :/ All sorts of lovely taxes and the like.

 

[Nebula815]

The Democrats just permanently destroyed the country financially. They also just brought the IRS into our lives in a new way, unless the SCOTUS can maybe overturn the mandate (I don't know). But otherwise, the debt is going to explode. IMO, the American people made a terrible mistake in their election of President Obama.

 

[MotoH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp069Y_P-9M

Sheep will always follow.

 

[mheslep]

The US system turns middle-class citizens into poor citizens with every catastrophic illness. The insurance companies dump you when you get sick, and you lose everything to bankruptcy when you can't pay for care or you die. When you are older and more experienced you will gain an appreciation for this. I hope you never develop a debilitating disease, but if you do, you will gain an appreciation for this health-care bill. My wife and I both have some chronic pre-existing conditions, and if she loses her job (and her health insurance), we will never be able to buy health insurance again, at least a rates that won't bankrupt us AND with ruinous caps. So many opponents of health-care reform wave the flag and talk about how the bill is socialism. Funny, it's only socialism if it benefits somebody else.

European countries manage to provide almost universal health-care coverage at about 1/2 the cost per capita of what we spend. If the US cannot do the same, our system deserves to fail.

Why not spend some effort to see what would happen to you with exactly those chronic conditions under a European system. Step 1: rough out your lifetime income up until you became disabled and jack up the tax rates on both you and your wife's income over that time. Add a big VAT tax on any major items - house,farm,car. Then add in some downtime for http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=fr&v=74" That period where you were self-employed, acted as your own contractor - 50/50 chance it never happens. Step 2: Pick a country and check out exactly what happens for your illness. Wait-times, etc.

 

[MotoH]

Oh by the way, How do you PhD students plan on paying for health care once you get past 26?

 

[Office_Shredder]

mheslep, have you actually been to Europe? You're making it sound like the average lifestyle there is third world compared to the glorious bounty we have in America. That's simply false. Also, your random 10% unemployment stat is ridiculous: it's not true for many European nations with universal healthcare (UK, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, just to name a few from browsing that website)

MotoH, my school already provides insurance for its grad students. If you're poor enough to not be able to afford health insurance the government is supposed to help cover it under the new bill

 

[zomgwtf]

I never said the insurance system should stay they way it is. There are problems with it, and that can be fixed. But now I am paying not only for every low life piece of ****s food stamps and welfare, but their health insurance too! Where is the justice in that?

Yeah you know what, it is me first. And that is how the game of life is played. I've got enough bills to pay for already, and when I need to pay 40% more for someone who sits on their *** all day, gets a cough and goes to the doctor, it brings ME into the hole.

I live in Canada, and because I pay for health care I certainly am not in any sort of hole. In fact I don't think my life is any different from an Americans life... unless I am understanding the system wrong?

 

[MotoH]

We will be paying way more than what you are zomg.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Why do you say that?

 

[spacemanspiff]

It seems backwards that the CBO estimates the fees from people not buying coverage would raise $17 billion over 10 years. So they are expecting a bunch of money from the people they are supposed to be helping? wtf!

They are also demanding small business to provide coverage for their employees? Isn't this what got us into trouble in the first place? When people rely on companies then they feel entitled and if they get fired then they are screwed. If we get people into their own plans then they don't have to worry when they are fired. This will also free up companies with tons of extra cash.

 

[rootX]

We will be paying way more than what you are zomg.

Why do you say that?

Canada health costs are far below American (in terms of GDP %) IIRC. American Healthcare is entirely different from Canadian and cannot be addressed similarly.

 

[rootX]

Also, your random 10% unemployment stat is ridiculous: it's not true for many European nations with universal healthcare (UK, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, just to name a few from browsing that website)

What you mean by random? It's unemployment is always close to 10% which is worse than US. It has many regulations and unions.

 

[Office_Shredder]

But the entire idea behind the bill is to lower the average cost of healthcare. The system is inefficient (compared to other countries in % GDP) so the whole point is the change the system to drop the costs

root, that was for France. There are countries other than France. Go back to the website that you posted, and look up the countries that I mentioned. Their unemployment rate is no worse than the US, and in some cases far better over the period they graph

 

[calculusrocks]

But the entire idea behind the bill is to lower the average cost of healthcare. The system is inefficient (compared to other countries in % GDP) so the whole point is the change the system to drop the costs

root, that was for France. There are countries other than France. Go back to the website that you posted, and look up the countries that I mentioned. Their unemployment rate is no worse than the US, and in some cases far better over the period they graph

And the whole idea of social security was to take care of a just few years of retirement for the elderly. And the whole idea of the DMV is to process motor related forms efficiently. And the whole idea of the Post Office is... well you get the point.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Does social security NOT help pay for retirees anymore? Has the post office stopped delivering mail?

DMVs are run by state governments (which is what currently regulate health insurance), so you're hurting your point by criticizing them.

 

[calculusrocks]

The point was that government doesn't run anything efficiently by the standards of a free market. Social Security started out as a modest government program and has balooned well beyond its stated charted, and now is facing bankruptcy within a decade or two.

The post office is so badly run that it simply encourages us to use email.

The DMV is so badly run that I had to wait 4 hours in line to get license plates.

After all of the government failures, what makes people think that government control of health care is remotely a good idea?