Heat Capacity and First Thermodynamic Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the First Law of Thermodynamics, specifically the relationship between heat capacity at constant volume (Cv) and constant pressure (Cp) in the context of energy changes in a thermodynamic system. Participants explore the implications of using Cv in equations that also involve processes at constant pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • FriedrichLuo questions the use of Cv in a constant-pressure context, expressing confusion about the application of a constant-volume parameter in a different thermodynamic condition.
  • Some participants assert that energy is a state variable, suggesting that the relationship E2-E1 = Cv(T2-T1) is valid across all processes, regardless of whether they are at constant volume or pressure.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of not mixing differential and finite values in thermodynamic equations, clarifying the distinction between expressions for heat transfer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that energy is a state variable, but there is uncertainty regarding the appropriateness of applying Cv in constant-pressure scenarios. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of this application.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of Cv and Cp across different processes, as well as the potential confusion between differential and finite quantities in thermodynamic equations.

FriedrichLuo
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I have a question about the deduction of First Thermodynamic Law. The book that I have is written by Paul A. Tipler and Gene Mosca and it is called Physics: For Scientists and Engineers.

The way to deduct it is given here:

@constant volume,
Qv=Cv(T2-T1)
Because W=0, E2-E1=Cv(T2-T1)
After all, Cv=d(E2-E1)/d(T2-T1)

@constant pressure,
Given that E2-E1=Qp-P(V2-V1) and Qp=Cp(T2-T1)
We have Cp(T2-T1)=(E2-E1)+P(V2-V1)
Now, the author replaces E2-E1 with Cv(T2-T1), I cannot understand this because he incites something under constant volume into a formula under constant pressure.

My question is what determines the internal heat in a system is defined by CvP, which can even be used in a situation in which a different condition is given.

Please help me if you know! Thank you in advance!
 
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Hi FriedrichLuo, welcome to PF. Yours is a very common question, as it is disconcerting to see a "constant-volume" parameter being used in a constant-pressure process. But energy is a state variable (its value is process independent), and for this system the relationship E2-E1 = Cv(T2-T1) holds for all processes.
 
Mapes said:
Hi FriedrichLuo, welcome to PF. Yours is a very common question, as it is disconcerting to see a "constant-volume" parameter being used in a constant-pressure process. But energy is a state variable (its value is process independent), and for this system the relationship E2-E1 = Cv(T2-T1) holds for all processes.

Hey, Mapes. Thank you for your reply! I come down to this after reading your post:

dU=dQ+dW, dU is a state parameter and dQ and dW are process parameters. Therefore, dQ(or Cv(T2-T1) holds for any situations where process is involved. And dU is a result when a new state is reached. In other words, dQ and dW are what is really happening; dU is only concept to show the resultant of two true processes.

I hope I get it right. :D
 
This sounds like a fine way of thinking about things, but make sure you don't mix your differential and finite values. You can say

\delta Q=C_V\,dT

or

Q=C_V(T_2-T_1)

but not mix them.
 

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