Helicopter height and vertical speed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a helicopter's ascent, focusing on the calculation of height and vertical speed given specific forces and parameters. It includes elements of dynamics, forces acting on the helicopter, and the effects of drag and gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The initial problem involves calculating the height of a helicopter given its mass, acceleration, and the upward force from its blades.
  • One participant presents a detailed attempt at a solution, including calculations for drag force, frontal area, and final height.
  • Another participant points out that the initial equation used implies the helicopter would maintain speed, suggesting that acceleration must be considered in the calculations.
  • Further replies emphasize that acceleration is necessary not only in the final height calculation but also in other steps of the problem-solving process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus, as there is disagreement regarding the treatment of acceleration in the calculations. Some participants challenge the initial approach while others defend it, indicating multiple competing views on the correct methodology.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the initial calculations, particularly regarding the integration of acceleration into various steps of the problem-solving process. There is also a lack of clarity on how drag affects the overall dynamics of the helicopter's ascent.

bbbl67
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Homework Statement


This is not my homework question, I was asked to help with it, but I've been out of the engineering field for many years now. Here's the question:

Starting from rest, a 2500 kg helicopter accelerates straight up at a constant 1.7 m/s2. What is the helicopter's height at the moment its blades are providing an upward force of 29 kN? The helicopter can be modeled as a 2.6-m -diameter sphere, and air resistance is not negligible.

Homework Equations


Gravity:
F_g = m g

Drag:
C_d = F_d/(1/2 ρ u^2 A) |
F_d | drag force
C_d | drag coefficient
ρ | mass density
u | characteristic speed
A | frontal area

I looked up the drag coefficient (https://is.gd/qpe40K) of a sphere, and found two figures:
C_d = 0.1 (laminar)
C_d = 0.45 (turbulent)

So, I chose the turbulent figure (0.45).

The Attempt at a Solution


We know that the two forces will add up to 29 kN at a certain point, so:
F_g + F_d = 29 kN
F_d = 29 kN - F_g
= 29 kN - m g
= 29 kN - 2500 kg * 9.8 m/s^2
= 4.5 kN

The standard density of air at sea level is:
ρ = 1.204 kg/m^3

The frontal area of a sphere is:
A = pi * r^2
= pi * (2.6 m / 2)^2
= 5.309 m^2

So we have everything except the vertical speed of the helicopter, which we can find by rearranging the drag coefficient formula, and we get:
C_d = F_d/(1/2 ρ u^2 A)
u^2 = F_d/(1/2 ρ C_d A)
u = sqrt(F_d/(1/2 ρ C_d A))
= sqrt(4.5 kN/(0.5 * 1.204 kg/m^3 * 0.45 * 5.309 m^2))
= 56 m/s

Now to find the final height of the helicopter, we have to use and rearrange the acceleration-velocity-distance formula:

v_f^2 = v_i^2 + 2 a d |
v_f | final speed
a | acceleration
v_i | initial speed
d | distance

v_i = 0
v_f = u = 56 m/s
a = 1.7 m/s^2
d = h = ?
h = (v_f^2 - v_i^2)/ 2a
= (56 m/s)^2 / 2 (1.7 m/s^2)

Therefore,
h = 883 m

Were my procedures okay? Any critiques?
 
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bbbl67 said:
F_g + F_d = 29 kN
That would make the helicopter keep its speed.
Don't forget its acceleration.
 
mfb said:
That would make the helicopter keep its speed.
Don't forget its acceleration.
Well, the acceleration was used in the height calculation.
 
That is not the only step where you need it. I quoted the part where you forgot to consider it.
 

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