Help Needed with Final Question on Electrical Course

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics question related to buckling in the context of an Electrical and Electronic Engineering course. Participants are seeking assistance with calculations and concepts related to buckling loads and cross-sectional areas of pipes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding physics questions within their electrical course and requests help with a specific problem.
  • Another participant asks for relevant equations and details about the course to provide better assistance.
  • A participant shares their calculations related to Euler buckling and critical loads, seeking validation of their approach.
  • Concerns are raised about the correctness of the cross-sectional area calculation, with a suggestion that the participant's method may lead to inaccuracies.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the calculation of the cross-sectional area, emphasizing the importance of using the correct formula and units.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the correctness of the calculations, with some expressing uncertainty and others providing corrections. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the accuracy of the initial calculations and the appropriate methods to use.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing assumptions regarding the definitions of variables and the application of formulas. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in the calculations and the potential impact of using incorrect methods.

ryanmcarthy
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Hi All,

I am really struggling with a question, and this is the last one I need to complete and then I can submit my paper.

I appreciate you don't like to just give out answers, but I can't work anything out. I am doing an electrical course, but for some reason there are some physics questions in, which I don't understand.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/mcarthyryan/Pg5.png

Pg5.png




Thanks a lot
 
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ryanmcarthy said:
Hi All,

I am really struggling with a question, and this is the last one I need to complete and then I can submit my paper.

I appreciate you don't like to just give out answers, but I can't work anything out. I am doing an electrical course, but for some reason there are some physics questions in, which I don't understand.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/mcarthyryan/Pg5.png

Pg5.png




Thanks a lot

What are the relevant equations? What is the name of the class, and what year?
 
Hi,
I'm not sure on the equations :( And the course is Electrical and Electronic Engineering, hence why I am struggling with physics questions.



Thanks a lot
 
ryanmcarthy said:
Hi,
I'm not sure on the equations :( And the course is Electrical and Electronic Engineering, hence why I am struggling with physics questions.



Thanks a lot

That is no help. Please re-read the PF Rules link at the top of the page, and try again...
 
Do you have a textbook or some course notes to help you along? All of the posts you've posted seem to be of an introductory mechanics / statics bent, so I'm assuming you're working through a textbook / course of some sort? Like Jerry Maguire says, "Help us help you".

EDIT: If not, here's a starting point for part (a):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling
 
Last edited:
Hi Guys,

Apologise for lack of input in my previous post :)

I've had a go at the answers, and hopefully these are nearly there, could you possibly check them out?


a)

Euler buckling

Yield load Pc = σy A = π2 E I / leff2

Fixed ends
σy A = π2 E I / leff2 = 4 π2 E I / l2 or l2 = 4 π2 E I / σy A
I = π (do4 – di4) / 64,
where do = outer diameter = 80E-3 and di = inner diameter = 60E-3
and A = π r2, where r = (do – di ) / 2

So inserting all the data, the critical length lcr becomes 0.0131 m

b) i) Buckling mode shown in figure.
Can't draw this on here, but I think it is a column, a bit like "I", but with a bend in the middle?


ii) Critical load: Pcr = σy A = 308 kN

c) i) For a short column, the failure comes through compression rather than buckling.

ii) Johnsons formula gives the critical load as:

Pcr = σy A (1 - ) = 308 kN



Am I getting there? Thanks a lot
 


The calculation of the cross sectional area A is incorrect. There may be other problems in the calculation with using the right units.

If you think about the kind of structures which are prone to failure by buckling, long skinny members will buckle before short fat ones. Your effective length looks to be quite short for buckling failure, given the diameter of the pipe.
 
Could you point out which calculation please?
 
  • #10
The cross sectional area of the pipe, A = (pi/4)*(do^2-di^2) sq.mm Your calculations used r = (do - di) / 2 which is incorrect. The wall thickness of the pipe t = (do - di) / 2
It makes a big difference in the magnitude of the area.
 
  • #11
Thanks a lot for that, I will re-do them.
 

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