COVID Here comes COVID-19 version BA.2, BA.4, BA.5,...

[pinball1970]

When I caught Covid in March and had a persistent cough afterwards (weeks later), my GP prescribed a 5 day course of Prednisone (two 20mg tablets daily) which seemed to do the trick.

But I'm gathering in the UK, to get ahold of a GP you need to go through a national phone number.... I would have thought you had a medical centre independent of the NHS.

Yes after a bad chest infection a few years ago salbutamol was not taking effect. Prednisone did the trick. I cannot remember if I was already on steroids at that point.
My review with the Dr was supposed to be today (NW UK) but I got call yesterday from reception saying the Dr was off Ill with a chest infection!
Nothing now till the 25th Jan.
You can ring the GP for emergency prescription but no call outs due to my location. NHS 111number is next port of call.
Our NHS is still very stretched.

 

[pinball1970]

Hello quick question I read this post on reddit. Is it correct to believe that the worse your symptoms from the vaccine the worse your side effects to getting covid would be without vaccinated? What if you get the vaccines should you still be worried about covid if you reacted badly to the vaccine? Or is this just relevant to heart attacks from the vaccines?

I am a little worried now not because of the vaccines but because of the covid viruses.

Reddit is not a valid source for a citation. Can you find the published article this is based on?

 

[jimmy4554564]

Reddit is not a valid source for a citation. Can you find the published article this is based on?

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025
Then somehow in the reddit post it jumps to severity of covid vaccine reaction = to severity of getting covid.
Or am I misreading the comments in the posts or are people just speculating in the post. Thanks

 

[pinball1970]

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025
Then somehow in the reddit post it jumps to severity of covid vaccine reaction = to severity of getting covid.
Or am I misreading the comments in the posts or are people just speculating in the post. Thanks

The study is looking at individuals with free spike protein in the plasma and cardiac symptoms verses a control group with neither.
Both groups vaccinated.
People on here more qualified to comment but from memory the stats were something like 1/100,000 vaccine related accidents expected. Not deaths necessarily. That data is probably out of date now.
@BillTre @atyy

 

[StevieTNZ]

Our NHS is still very stretched.

Before my nurse left for Canada in May, she said the health systems around the world are all suffering. Even in NZ our health system is stretched. If things aren't done to improve it now, I dare not think what things will be like when winter arrives this year....

 

[pinball1970]

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025
Then somehow in the reddit post it jumps to severity of covid vaccine reaction = to severity of getting covid.
Or am I misreading the comments in the posts or are people just speculating in the post. Thanks

Some more digging on this – from the UK, worth a read.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals

Also this from the lancet.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00842-X/fulltext

Majority of cases appear to be mild (see below) and rare, approx. 1-2 per 100,000. Any follow up studies I come across I forward a link

“The clinical presentations of myocarditis after COVID-19 mRNA vaccination have been predominantly mild and few patients have required intensive treatment.9 However, one case-series, published in 2022, of adolescent patients found a persistence of radiographic abnormalities at follow-up examinations, which could be cause for concern.11 However, the patients followed up had excellent clinical outcomes, suggesting minimal chronic morbidity attributable to vaccine-associated myocarditis. Nevertheless, the continuous surveillance of this patient group for any increased frequency of heart failure, sudden death, or related cardiac comorbidities is necessary.”

 

[Laroxe]

Hello quick question I read this post on reddit. Is it correct to believe that the worse your symptoms from the vaccine the worse your side effects to getting covid would be without vaccinated? What if you get the vaccines should you still be worried about covid if you reacted badly to the vaccine? Or is this just relevant to heart attacks from the vaccines?

I am a little worried now not because of the vaccines but because of the covid viruses.

Its currently considered that the myocarditis associated with Covid vaccination reflects a particular type of immune activation that can occur following a lot of infections and vaccinations. Its a useful reminder about the state of our knowledge about our immune system prior to Covid 19 that we still don't know why Covid 19 appears so good at invoking this, but its still a rare reaction. I haven't seen any research attempting to link this specific adverse effect to the others seen after vaccination that reflect a broader inflammatory reaction. It may have been the publicity following the death of a well known athlete that brought this issue to public attention and increased surveillance as these serious outcomes are extremely rare. In all types of myocarditis physical exertion increases risk and we still don't know if the deaths are associated with previous undiagnosed pathology. In the great majority of cases this sort of myocarditis recovers quickly with rest and it is much more likely following actual infection rather than vaccination. Its interesting that this adverse event was not recognised in the UK despite the early start of the vaccination program there. They started with the astra zenica vaccine which appears far less likely to cause this problem, introduced vaccination based on age and risk, again the elderly being less at risk and then introduced a longer gap between the 1st and 2nd dose which again reduces risk
The people most at risk are the people that we would expect to have a rapid immune response, young adults, particularly males, the mRNA vaccines appear to stimulate a rapid antigenic response and this is increased if the vaccine doses are given closely together. This provides lots of info.

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/10/1186

 

[Astronuc]

The good news is the worst appears to be over from the RSV surge that has been making life miserable for many children and their parents. RSV cases have been falling steadily since the end of November, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

At the same time, the flu — which also came roaring back this fall after mostly disappearing for the previous two years — looks like it's finally receding in most places, according to the latest data out Friday from the CDC.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-covid-omicron-subvariant-spreading-fast-data

The rate at which the coronavirus is being detected in wastewater, which has become a bellwether for the pandemic, has tripled or quadrupled in many parts of the U.S. in recent weeks, Jha says. COVID-19 hospitalizations have jumped 70%, he says. And 300 to 400 people are dying every day from COVID-19 (in the US).

To make matters worse, all this is happening as yet another new, even more transmissible variant has taken over in the United States. Called XBB.1.5, this new omicron subvariant was barely on the radar in late November. But according to new estimates released Friday by the CDC, XBB.1.5 now accounts for almost a third of new infections and is the dominant variant in the Northeast.

New York state is still reporting ~30+/-5 deaths per day from SARS-Cov-2, but deaths from RSV and influenza are rare.

Health officials in Monroe County, for example, say they've confirmed two RSV deaths and 238 hospitalizations so far this year, among nearly 2,300 cases. Both deaths involve people over the age of 65, the health department said, though infants account for the most dramatic surge in RSV-linked hospitalizations, as is expected with this illness.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/hea...s-new-york-death-how-long-contagious/3957573/

Older folks (65+) likely have comorbidities that make them particularly vulnerable to influenza, RSV and SARS-Cov-2 infections.

According to the CDC, each year RSV leads to about:

• 2.1 million doctor visits among kids younger than 5
• 58,000 hospitalizations among kids younger than 5
• 177,000 hospitalizations among adults aged 65 and up
• 14,000 deaths among adults aged 65 and up
• 100 to 300 deaths in children younger than 5

From November last year
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/02/1133040571/rsv-questions-answers-treatment-options
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/health/rsv-children-vaccines.html

 

[StevieTNZ]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-...ubvariant-kraken-detected-in-new-zealand.html

The Ministry of Health said on Monday the Institute of Environmental Science and Research (ESR) reported the whole genome sequencing results for two COVID-19 cases with the subvariant late last week.

 

[pinball1970]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-...ubvariant-kraken-detected-in-new-zealand.html

Flu season a bad one in the UK according to this. https://amp.theguardian.com/society...for-decade-health-secretary-steve-barclay-nhs

 

[Astronuc]

The Guardian reports "Britain’s excess death rate is at a disastrous high – and the causes go far beyond Covid"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...nd-the-causes-go-far-beyond-covid/ar-AA16nkeZ

how else to describe the tens of thousands of bodies avoidably piling up in the nation’s mortuaries? One funeral home worker says that they’ve run out of spaces for the deceased and “are having to keep some encoffined in office rooms”; another hospital porter reports that the mortuary has been near capacity for two weeks. This national issue should be splashed on every front page and leading every bulletin. It isn’t: why?

 

[morrobay]

With 68% of the UK overweight or obese that causes hypertension/heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease covid can be very serious. And unlike public health polices , the individual has control of personal health.

https://www.healthexpress.co.uk/obesity-statistics-uk

 

[pinball1970]

With 68% of the UK overweight or obese that causes hypertension/heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease covid can be very serious. And unlike public health polices , the individual has control of personal health.

https://www.healthexpress.co.uk/obesity-statistics-uk

We are at 160 deaths per reporting day (every other day) so about 80 per actual day.

We are officially in flu season and this time last year we were higher 296 deaths per reporting day.

@Astronuc
Owen Jones is too political for me on the whole, one eye hand reporting the numbers with his other hand doing something else.

(that is as far as I will risk it!)

The lancet recently posted this on line

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(22)00384-6/fulltext

Representations of the different variants.

https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.10...55ffc73f-eb19-4d55-b863-988d1c151589/mmc1.pdf

 

[Astronuc]

I haven't looked at statistics in about a month, but the rates seem very low.

Meanwhile - new variants persist.
https://fortune.com/well/2023/03/31...orld-health-organization-xbb116-omicron-wave/

XBB.1.16, dubbed “Arcturus” by variant trackers, is very similar to U.S. dominant “Kraken” XBB.1.5—the most transmissible COVID variant yet, Maria Van Kerkhove, COVID-19 technical lead for the WHO, said earlier this week at a news conference.

But additional mutations in the virus’s spike protein, which attaches to and infects human cells, has the potential to make the variant more infectious and even cause more severe disease. For this reason, and due to rising cases in the East, XBB.1.16 is considered “one to watch,” Van Kerkhove says.

It’s a warning we’ve heard before about other Omicron spawn—XBB.1.5 in particular. The variant, which rose to prominence late last year and early this year, elicited warnings that it could cause more severe disease, based on new mutations it had developed.

If Fortune's article is unavailable, then try Yahoo's version
‘Arcturus,’ a highly transmissible COVID variant eyed by the WHO, appears to have a new symptom.
https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/arcturus-highly-transmissible-covid-variant-004116935.html

XBB.1.16 was added to the WHO’s list of variants under monitoring just recently, on March 22. COVID surveillance is at an all-time low. But so far, the bulk of cases have been identified where the new variant was first spotted, in India—one of the few countries where recorded COVID cases are on the rise, according to the WHO.

In the US -
From reported sequences, we know that the variant has also been spotted in the U.S.—in California, New Jersey, Virginia, Texas, Washington, New York, Illinois, Minnesota, Georgia, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Nevada, Indiana, North Carolina, Louisiana, and Delaware, to be precise.

A descendant variant, XBB.1.16.1, has also been seen in Nebraska, Missouri, and Michigan.

XBB.1.16 is a recombinant of two descendants of so-called “stealth Omicron” BA.2. A preprint study updated Sunday from scientists at the University of Tokyo suggests that it spreads about 1.17 to 1.27 times more efficiently than relatives XBB.1 and XBB.1.5, also known as "Kraken," which currently dominates U.S. cases.

XBB.1.16’s increased ability to outpace other variants suggest that it “will spread worldwide in the near future,” researchers wrote, adding that the variant is “robustly resistant” to antibodies from a variety of COVID variants, including “stealth Omicron” BA.2 and BA.5, which surged globally last summer.

 

[Astronuc]

As if we aren't fatigued by this virus - according to Reuters and the CDC, CDC is monitoring yet a new variatnt
https://news.yahoo.com/us-cdc-tracks-lineage-virus-020734444.html

The lineage is named BA.2.86, and has been detected in the United States, Denmark and Israel, the CDC said in a post on messaging platform X.

The new lineage, which has 36 mutations from the currently-dominant XBB.1.5 COVID variant "harkens back to an earlier branch" of the virus, explained Dr. S. Wesley Long, medical director of diagnostic microbiology at Houston Methodist.

I was still on Eris - Covid Eris: What to know about new variant EG.5 dominating U.S. cases
https://www.reuters.com/world/what-is-eris-new-covid-variant-2023-08-14/https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-tracking-new-covid-lineage-ba286-after-detected/story?id=102366828

 

[pinball1970]

Some better news

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-08-long-term-reaffirms-benefits-covid-vaccination.html

 

[Laroxe]

It does seem that the Covid virus is continuing its quest to decide on its best form, though it does seem that our monitoring has gotten a bit out of hand. Most infections now appear to be due to variants of the original omicron and it can be difficult to decide if the observed changes are significant. It does seem that the main changes in the omicron variant were in its very short incubation period, this makes it difficult for our immune system to rapidly increase our immune response, even after vaccination. It also has varying degrees on antibody evasion, particularly to those that target the spike protein and as the virus tends to produce milder illness, people are more likely to continue to engage socially, facilitating further spread. The only differences seen in the sub variants is in the mutations in the spike protein, which might alter the antibody sensitivity. However because we produce a wide range of antibodies following vaccination or infection and some clearly attach to conserved areas of the virus, our immune system does tend to rapidly catch up with the infection and control the virus, preventing more serious disease. There is significant cross immunity between all the Covid variants, much more so than we see with flu, and it looks as if some of the immune responses are much more enduring than previously thought. This is never absolute as this virus does appear quite good at causing autoimmune reactions and can attack the immune system directly. Having said that it seems unlikely that a more dangerous variant will develop, the virus seems to have hit on an ideal strategy to maintain its fitness. I suspect that a virus that causes a more seer illness would lead to people staying at home and so reduce its opportunity to spread.
Any way, just to keep you on your toes, Medscape report that a variant known as EG 5 (or Eris), a descendent of XBB has become the dominant variant in the USA (17% of all cases). It's found globally and accounts for 1 in 10 Covid cases in the UK At some point we should see one variant becoming persistent over time but by reporting every single change maybe not, viruses do change.
https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarti...ExcNews_etid5770381&uac=29315AJ&impID=5770381

 

[kyphysics]

Got my new updated COVID booster yesterday.

Feel horrrrrible today! Like a truck ran over me and I have zero energy left to even move. Gosh - this fatigue is major (even beyond or equal to my worst days with diabetic fatigue). Massive headache, chills, and tiredness.
Literally could not concentrate on any work and called it a day. It'd take me extended time to even do basic arithmetic today. . . . .let's see how long this lasts.

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

 

[pinball1970]

Got my new updated COVID booster yesterday.

Feel horrrrrible today! Like a truck ran over me and I have zero energy left to even move. Gosh - this fatigue is major (even beyond or equal to my worst days with diabetic fatigue). Massive headache, chills, and tiredness.
Literally could not concentrate on any work and called it a day. It'd take me extended time to even do basic arithmetic today. . . . .let's see how long this lasts.

Good luck to all getting their boosters!

Hope you well soon

 

[kyphysics]

Hope you well soon

Thanks!

Saw this today and thought others might like:

 

[nsaspook]

Thanks!

Saw this today and thought others might like:

OMG, will this guy (EFD) never stop.

 

[kyphysics]

I sometimes think EFD is alarmist, but he does provide a lot of valuable info.

 

[Laroxe]

Well it's clear that Covid 19 isn't over, and it might be with us for some time, but the reports of side effects to the new vaccine are a bit worrying. It is starting to look as if the regulators are using different standards in regulating this vaccine, and this seems to be reflected in the different recommendations seen in different countries. Considering the evidence that the monovalent vaccine does result in much higher antibody levels towards the current variants, this does, at least suggest, a higher risk of immunogenic adverse effects. I wonder if the shorter evaluation period, with fewer subjects, would have picked this up.

There is currently an increase in cases and hospitalisations, which interestingly doesn't appear linked to the newer variants. The increase is nothing like the numbers seen in last summer's surge, and might simply reflect the increasing travel seen in the summer months. Having said that the fact that case numbers are no longer monitored, we have no clear idea of numbers in the community.

https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/it-may-be-time-pay-attention-covid-again-2023a1000ipk

 

[kyphysics]

It's Saturday. Got boosted Thursday...few side-effects/symptoms until late-night/early-morning-after when I woke to use the restroom. I felt pain in my arm during those bathroom trips and increasing fatigue and headache.

Friday - after about 9AM - was when I had the truck ran over me feeling described above/earlier.

Today, I had a slow fatigued, headache-y morning, but by dinner time I am practically symptom free. Hoping the worst is over from my COVID booster. This latest Moderna booster basically gave me approximately 1.5 days worth of very bad symptoms. . . .Not bad and well-worth it to product my father (who is in very poor health).

 

[kyphysics]

Well it's clear that Covid 19 isn't over, and it might be with us for some time, but the reports of side effects to the new vaccine are a bit worrying. It is starting to look as if the regulators are using different standards in regulating this vaccine, and this seems to be reflected in the different recommendations seen in different countries. Considering the evidence that the monovalent vaccine does result in much higher antibody levels towards the current variants, this does, at least suggest, a higher risk of immunogenic adverse effects. I wonder if the shorter evaluation period, with fewer subjects, would have picked this up.

There is currently an increase in cases and hospitalisations, which interestingly doesn't appear linked to the newer variants. The increase is nothing like the numbers seen in last summer's surge, and might simply reflect the increasing travel seen in the summer months. Having said that the fact that case numbers are no longer monitored, we have no clear idea of numbers in the community.

https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/it-may-be-time-pay-attention-covid-again-2023a1000ipk

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

 

[mathwonk]

After 6 vaccines, the last in spring 2023, I traveled to Scotland for a week to visit family. I was one of the few people masked. Ate in numerous restaurants. On return home, had symptoms a day later, and came down with multiple symptom covid within hours.

Worst flu like disease in the last 50 years, miserable for 5 days, but not hospitalized. Recovering after 6 days, still positive and isolating. Perhaps the paxlovid cycle helped, and if it was this bad with it, what would it have been without it? Bottom line - risk definitely not over, take care.

The grandson we visited in Scotland is now quite sick, and most students in his college classes are coughing.

Latest (Fall) boosters were not available here yet when I left on the trip.

edit Oct 4: after 5 days felt better, tested negative twice. Then got symptoms again, tested positive again 9 days after first positive test. Felt poorly but not as bad as first round. Still slightly positive and symptomatic today, 16 days after first positive test. My wife got it after my 9th day, and is still positive. But we are not hospitalized. Just tired of this.

Our own regimen is vaccines, masks, isolation for as long as it takes to test negative more than once. My wife and I had to do an errand together, and I suspect she got it from me in the car.

Be careful, a lot of us are in the higher risk group.

edit: Oct 10: now my wife has covid/paxlovid rebound. I am still slightly positive after 21 days and my wife who was negative for three days after paxlovid cycle, now is strongly positive again on her 10th day since first positive test.

The 4 free tests are going quickly.

My octogenarian buddy got it in May, rebounded and was positive 28 days, so in my small realm of experience, rebound is the norm for us elders.

Most I know who got it did so after traveling, and/or attending large convocations.

 

[Tom.G]

is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore.

IIRC, the stated rational was (paraphrased)

'Almost everyone has already been either vaccinated or has already caught the Covid version that the old vaccines cover. The hospitals are no longer overloaded so there is no longer an emergency.'

My first impression was, Perhaps hard-nosed, but eminently practical!
(Do you take a Cold Medicine when you don't have a Cold or the sniffles?)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[pinball1970]

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

Mine is booked for 25th October so I'll see if different from last year which was bivalent. (UK)
My Influenza A was Quadrivalent 2022.

 

[pinball1970]

IIRC, the stated rational was (paraphrased)

'Almost everyone has already been either vaccinated or has already caught the Covid version that the old vaccines cover. The hospitals are no longer overloaded so there is no longer an emergency.'

My first impression was, Perhaps hard-nosed, but eminently practical!
(Do you take a Cold Medicine when you don't have a Cold or the sniffles?)

Cheers,
Tom

Getting to endemic status as per Influenza A with seasons and annual jabs for vulnerable groups for A and covid is where we are. I will take that.
Wearing a mask from Oct-Feb (UK flu season ) in public/ confined spaces I think is best for me now as a personal choice.
I am unlikely to die (statistically) but I don't want to be flat on my back for five days.

 

[Laroxe]

Wait, so we no longer track COVID cases, yet we know cases and hospitalizations are up? Am I misunderstanding?

I know my local hospital no longer posts daily case counts. They stopped in early 2023, IIRC.

As for the latest boosters (I got Moderna's Spikevax), is there a reason they don't do bivalent anymore. My last booster before Spikevax was a Pfizer bivalent one. Is there anything wrong with a bivalent booster? I tried searching, but don't see anything. Searches just say bivalent boosters should not be used anymore.

It was decided virtually everywhere that the sort of population level surveillance that used to happen no longer serves a purpose. There are still some types of surveillance used, the testing of waste water for Covid RNA and other virus particles seems to be used in some places. This can, it seems, give a reasonable indicator of the rate of infection in the population. Hospitalisations and deaths are always recorded, so changes in them continue to be monitored.
Because the level of antibodies needed to prevent infection (in some) is very high, they were looking at ways to increase antibody production, particularly the most active antibodies against the current variants causing disease. While the original vaccines continue to provide some protection against severe disease, it was thought that because of what has been described as original antigenic sin, the inclusion of the older variants in the vaccine interfered with the antibody production for the newer variants. Our immune system putting greater effort into targeting the variant it first encountered. In the new monovalent vaccines, the immune system is only exposed to one of the more recent variants, and it does seem that this induces higher levels of the more active antibodies.
It still isn't clear what effect this will have on the transmission and spread, but it may provide some added protection for a few months after the booster. All of the vaccines continue to offer significant protection against severe disease.