HHO Easy Recombination to get electricity

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the challenges of recombining hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) to generate electricity efficiently, particularly through reverse electrolysis. While fuel cells are a known solution, their high cost is a barrier for many seeking scalable alternatives. Key issues include the difficulty of effectively converting recombination energy into usable power and the complexities of safely storing hydrogen, which often requires high pressure or low temperatures. Some participants suggest burning hydrogen to produce heat for power generation, though this method is inefficient. Overall, while there are potential methods for hydrogen energy storage and generation, practical and safety concerns remain significant obstacles.
Jamison Bond
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I was just wondering if there is an easy way to recombine hydrogen in a fuel cell style but effectively by doing electrolysis in reverse. Splitting is really easy but is there a way to get the HHO to recombine into water and release electricity effectively by reverse electrolysis? I get that there are fuel cells but they are expensive and I am not made of money. Looking for a decent scalable output. Really just a hydrogen battery
 
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As a somewhat flippant response, your post strikes me a bit as a "get cheap energy with this trick companies hate" question. I mean, fuel cells exist for a reason.

A more physical answer, I think you will have two problems: how to meaningfully convert the recombination energy into something usable, and secondly, how to store the hydrogen in the first place. Because that's the two main problems a fuel cell solves. Storing hydrogen at a reasonable volume, other than binding it chemically like in the fuel cell, is only possible by storing it in liquid form. That takes very cold temperatures and high pressure, a very dangerous combination.
Converting the recombination energy into usable energy, well, since chemical conversion is out of the question, the thing left is to just plain burn it, and make use of the heat. very inefficient, and you need a lot of oxygen too.
 
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Jamison Bond said:
I was just wondering if there is an easy way to recombine hydrogen in a fuel cell style but effectively by doing electrolysis in reverse. Splitting is really easy but is there a way to get the HHO to recombine into water and release electricity effectively by reverse electrolysis? I get that there are fuel cells but they are expensive and I am not made of money. Looking for a decent scalable output. Really just a hydrogen battery
Welcome to the PF.

You don't get more energy out than you put into split the water. You do understand that part, right?
 
Jamison Bond said:
I was just wondering if there is an easy way to recombine hydrogen in a fuel cell style but effectively by doing electrolysis in reverse. Splitting is really easy but is there a way to get the HHO to recombine into water and release electricity effectively by reverse electrolysis? I get that there are fuel cells but they are expensive and I am not made of money. Looking for a decent scalable output. Really just a hydrogen battery

If you're looking to generate power, the easiest way is probably just to burn the hydrogen by letting it recombine with oxygen and then use the heat generated to power a generator. I believe there are already generators out there that run off of hydrogen that you can purchase.
 
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Jamison Bond said:
I was just wondering if there is an easy way to recombine hydrogen in a fuel cell style but effectively by doing electrolysis in reverse. Splitting is really easy but is there a way to get the HHO to recombine into water and release electricity effectively by reverse electrolysis? I get that there are fuel cells but they are expensive and I am not made of money. Looking for a decent scalable output. Really just a hydrogen battery
How about a steam engine turning a generator? Efficiency's about the same as a fuel cell.
 
Jamison Bond said:
Splitting is really easy
Recombining them is really the easy part -- just apply a spark in the presence of hydrogen and oxygen. That's what happened to the Hindenburg in 1937.
 
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Mark44 said:
Recombining them is really the easy part -- just apply a spark in the presence of hydrogen and oxygen. That's what happened to the Hindenburg in 1937.
And not to forget the "modern" incidents at which this exothermic reaction took place: Chernobyl and Fukushima.
 
rumborak said:
As a somewhat flippant response, your post strikes me a bit as a "get cheap energy with this trick companies hate" question. I mean, fuel cells exist for a reason.

A more physical answer, I think you will have two problems: how to meaningfully convert the recombination energy into something usable, and secondly, how to store the hydrogen in the first place. Because that's the two main problems a fuel cell solves. Storing hydrogen at a reasonable volume, other than binding it chemically like in the fuel cell, is only possible by storing it in liquid form. That takes very cold temperatures and high pressure, a very dangerous combination.
Converting the recombination energy into usable energy, well, since chemical conversion is out of the question, the thing left is to just plain burn it, and make use of the heat. very inefficient, and you need a lot of oxygen too.
The part about liquid requiring low temperatures AND high pressure is wrong. Low temperature is all it takes and the liquid is at a low pressure. As the temperature increases the pressure would increase. That is how hydrogen rockets work, pump liquid H2 into big tanks which do not require super hard shielding from high pressure, just strong enough to take the weight of the H2.
 
Yes, that was worded imprecisely by me, sorry. The point being, keeping hydrogen liquid is not exactly a "backyard scientist" kind of thing. If your cooling fails and your hydrogen starts to boils, you DO have a pressure problem, and a massive one. That's why hydrogen tanks are rather sturdy structures themselves.
 
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There are engineers that say it can't be done and engineers who get it done. This engineer already solved your issue and runs his house on sun powered HHO generation and recombination. HHO gas is used as an energy storage medium.

The home was developed by Mike Strizki with a grant from the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities. The solar hydrogen system was completed in 2006 and has since received international acclaim.
see

you might want to seek this gentleman out.

http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/mike-strizkis-bio.html
 
  • #11
rumborak said:
A more physical answer, I think you will have two problems: how to meaningfully convert the recombination energy into something usable, and secondly, how to store the hydrogen in the first place. Because that's the two main problems a fuel cell solves. Storing hydrogen at a reasonable volume, other than binding it chemically like in the fuel cell, is only possible by storing it in liquid form. That takes very cold temperatures and high pressure, a very dangerous combination.
Converting the recombination energy into usable energy, well, since chemical conversion is out of the question, the thing left is to just plain burn it, and make use of the heat. very inefficient, and you need a lot of oxygen too.

Not quite correct, a fuel cell uses a electrochemical reaction to oxidise a fuel to generate electricity. Fuel cells generally don't store any fuel or energy, they are closer to an "engine" in operation.
 
  • #12
Regarding HHO, its actually not what is used in the "hydrogen house", HHO is only useful to burn. For use in a fuel cell you need the fuel (H2) and the oxidiser (O2) separated. You'll note that the hydrogen house uses "electrolysers" which make pure H2 gas from electricity, not HHO.
 
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essenmein said:
Regarding HHO, its actually not what is used in the "hydrogen house", HHO is only useful to burn. For use in a fuel cell you need the fuel (H2) and the oxidiser (O2) separated. You'll note that the hydrogen house uses "electrolysers" which make pure H2 gas from electricity, not HHO.

You can also separate the O and the H during the electrolysis phase.


 
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roninmd said:
You can also separate the O and the H during the electrolysis phase.




Yes, that is what electrolysers do... lol ie, use electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. HHO is the stoichiometric mixture of the two gasses which a lot of wooo pedallers think imparts special powers to it.
 
  • #15
essenmein said:
HHO is the stoichiometric mixture of the two gasses which a lot of wooo pedallers think imparts special powers to it.

Yes, I keep wondering why people are using the formula 'HHO or 'HH'. I guess they are buzzwords of sorts.
 
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roninmd said:
There are engineers that say it can't be done and engineers who get it done. This engineer already solved your issue and runs his house on sun powered HHO generation and recombination. HHO gas is used as an energy storage medium.

Technical feasibility is one thing. Capital cost and operating cost determine whether a system is practical. And depreciation is a very real cost, and part of the operating cost.

Drakkith said:
Yes, I keep wondering why people are using the formula 'HHO or 'HH'. I guess they are buzzwords of sorts.

The term HHO is very popular with the people that show up on a gas mileage site and tell everybody that they discovered a wonderful new technology that will magically save the world. None of them are willing to do a controlled ABA test, and document the results. Nor are they willing to discuss the safety aspects of an explosive gas mixture in a glass jar adjacent to moving parts, high voltage (ignition system), and hot exhaust gases.
 
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  • #17
Don't mess with hydrogen at home...

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/warner-gas-bottle-explosion-man-dead/news-story/306280b5d74477139b593aed85a7058a

https://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-167/issue-11/features/the-dangers-of-hydrogen-based-experimental-fuels-p1.html
 
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CWatters said:
Don't mess with hydrogen at home...

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/warner-gas-bottle-explosion-man-dead/news-story/306280b5d74477139b593aed85a7058a

https://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-167/issue-11/features/the-dangers-of-hydrogen-based-experimental-fuels-p1.html
As a much lighter-than-air gas, H2 is inherently safer than other gaseous fuels. DIY use of all fuels is dangerous unless you take all the appropriate safety measures. Town Gas, in the old days, had a high H2 content and I would suggest that the accidents of the past were probably due to the incredibly sloppy regulation for home use and the materials used for gas plumbing (RUBBER hoses, for god's sake!). Hydrogen clears itself very quickly by floating up and away, unlike bottled Hydrocarbons which hang around in basements and boat hulls for weeks.
Alternative methods for storing Hydrogen have been studied for years. This wiki article describes several, including the use of metal hydrides. Years ago, there was a BBC Tomorrow's World program which showed a H2 Powered van, using metal hydride storage. The current trials of urban bus systems, based on Hydrogen fuel cells that I have read about, used liquid H2 but I believe the longer term solutions will be based on a more 'stable' storage method but of course, they have not been developed soon enough to deal with present urban pollution (or to earn politicians brownie points).
 
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