Hi, how to find the magnitude of a rotating vector?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the magnitude of a rotating vector, focusing on the mathematical interpretation of the relationship between the vector's magnitude and its angular velocity. Participants explore definitions, mathematical expressions, and derivations related to rotating vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship |dA/dt| = A(dθ/dt) and seeks clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant suggests starting from definitions to clarify the concept.
  • It is noted that a rotating vector maintains a constant magnitude while changing its angle over time.
  • A mathematical representation of a vector in rectangular coordinates is provided, along with its magnitude and components related to the angle θ.
  • Participants discuss the need to differentiate the vector with respect to time, emphasizing the use of the chain rule due to θ being a function of time.
  • One participant attempts to derive the expression for the rate of change of the vector but faces criticism for their approach and notation.
  • Another participant references a textbook for clarification, indicating a reliance on external sources for understanding.
  • After several exchanges, a participant successfully derives the magnitude of the rate of change of the vector, leading to a clearer understanding of the relationship between the vector's magnitude and angular velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple viewpoints and some disagreement regarding the derivation steps and notation used. While some participants successfully arrive at a correct expression, others challenge the clarity and correctness of earlier attempts, indicating that consensus on the approach has not been fully established.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about specific mathematical steps and definitions, indicating that some assumptions may be missing or that the discussion is dependent on particular interpretations of vector notation and differentiation.

rashida564
Messages
220
Reaction score
7
i get stuck in how to find the magnitude of rotating vector . why say that |dA/dt|=A(dθ/dt) but who we can derive it or interpret this fact
 
Science news on Phys.org
Start from the definitions.
 
the rotating vector have a constant magnitude but it change it's angle by the time
 
OK. So write that out mathematically.
 
write the definition mathematically
 
Do you not know how to write down the equation for a rotating vector?
A vector in rectangular coordinates is written: ##\vec v = v_x\hat\imath + v_y\hat\jmath##
The magnitude of that vector is ##|\vec v| = v = \sqrt{v_x^2+v_y^2}##

If the vector makes angle ##\theta## to the x-axis, then:
##v_x=v\cos\theta,\; v_y=v\sin\theta##
If the vector rotates, then ##\theta## is a function of time.

From there, and the definition of the derivative, you can derive and interpret the relation yourself.
So here is your task: prove ##\big|\frac{d}{dt} \vec v(t) \big| = v\frac{d}{dt}\theta(t)##
 
Last edited:
let v=r
dr/dt = lim Δt→0 Δr/Δt
Δr=2rsin(θ/2)
Δr≈rθ
dr/dt=lim Δt→0 Δrθ/Δt
|dt/dt| = r(dθ/dt)
is it correct
 
No. dt/dt = 1, your delta-r is a non sequitur... basically, what you wrote is nonsense.
It looks like you need to revise your notes about writing vectors.
 
i saw the explanation from Kleppner and Kolenkow book
 
  • #10
What explanation?
Reread post #6. If you will not take advise I cannot help you.
Do you know how to write a vector?
 
Last edited:
  • #11
a vector in rectangular coordinates system is written by it's x and y component
then we should write the vector as vcos(θ)i+vsin(θ) j
 
  • #12
Well done... so write that out, A= or whatever letter you wsnt to use for a vector.
Then differentiate both sides with respect to time ... you will need the chain rule because ##\theta## is a function of time.
 
  • #13
dA/dt=-sin(θ)dθ/dt i +vcos(θ)dθ/dt j
 
  • #14
rashida564 said:
dA/dt=-sin(θ)dθ/dt i +vcos(θ)dθ/dt j
You forgot the v in front of sin(θ). Now figure out what angle there is between A and dA/dt .
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: rashida564
  • #15
Don't worry about the angle... it's a shortcut but you don't need to figure that out.
Your next step is to find the magnitude. Don't forget that |A| = v
Find the expression for |dA/dt| and simplify.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: rashida564
  • #16
now i get it
|V|= √((-vsin(θ)dθ/dt)^2+(vcos(θ)dθ/dt)^2)
|V|=vdθ/dt*√(sin^2(θ)+cos^2(θ))
|V|=vdθ/dt
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Simon Bridge
  • #17
Well done.
Sometimes you have to just go through the steps without knowing for sure where you will end up.
Of course I could just have told you ... but then you'd have missed out on that "ahah" moment.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: rashida564 and vanhees71
  • #18
thank you
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
35
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
3K