Homosexuallity nature or nurture?

[TheStatutoryApe]

Maybe it is natures way of controling population

I've argued against this before. Homosexuals don't usually breed so their genetic predisposition wouldn't be passed down very often. You'd think it would eventually mostly just evaporate from the gene pool.
Come to think of it though if you consider homosexuality to be both a social and a biological phenomena then the idea of population control might work. As long as you consider genetic homosexuality to be a latent phenomena in the majority of humans and that it may require some environmental triggers to express itself.

 

[arildno]

Hmm..IvanSeeking, you are shifting the issue!
You are the one implying that 85% of female seagulls feel revulsion at the thought of what the remaining 15% do.
That is a hardly substantiated claim..

But, really, I don't have the patience to argue with a guy who begs to keep his revulsion of me and other gays pure and inviolate.

As long as you are in the grip of such phobic reactions, you are incompetent in judging how you would have been if you had bothered to remove such prejudices in yourself.
You might well have remained straight for all I know; if you didn't know it, there are lots of straight men around who are merely having an emotional INDIFFERENCE towards homosexual actions.

Those are the only ones in the world who has proven themselves to be true heterosexuals.

 

[arildno]

Hmm..I can't see that loathing the thought of one's parents' having sex is anything other than a particular, socially induced (emotional) habit. Most humans throughout history grew up in the same room/cave in which their parents slept (or did not sleep), and it seems improbable that such a loathing would be present in their children. A half-silenced titter seems a more probable reaction.

I can't say I feel any loathing (or any interest) at the thought of my parents having sex.
Somewhat differently with my grandparents, but I believe that has more to do with them being dead.
The idea of writhing, decaying corpses is not nice to contemplate

 

[DrDeath]

i think this getting off track slightly, the personal views of people about homosexuality arent an issue here! some people are straight and don't have a problem with gays, other people are raving homophobes. and some are raving poofs. whatever, each to their own. the question in hand is whether homosexuality is a product of biology, sociology, or a bit of both.
its nothing to do with population control (although culling a few people has sounded tempting whilst reading some of the comments here) as homosexuals do occasionally produce offspring, anyone heard of surrogacy or sperm banks etc. and as there were loads of gays around before we found these nice new methods of letting gay people reproduce, its fair to say that we are not a form of population control gone wrong.

ivan
quote "But seeing two guys kissing romantically violates my instictual sensibitlities much as it does to imagine my parents or grandparents having sex. Now don't get me wrong. I think people have a right to be left alone to find happiness however they can, but I don't want to see it."

strangely enough i don't enjoy walking down the street and seeing a guy and a girl snogging or groping each over, but i put up with it because i believe everyone is allowed their only life and choices. if i had my hetrosexuals would be banned from romantic displays in public, just like expect you would ban homos from plublic displays of affection if you could. as long its not indecent or immoral then what's the problem?

 

[arildno]

Actually, I feel more discomfort in that I invade a couple's privacy than that they "invade" mine.
Two persons finding happiness together have the RIGHT to be left alone in their enjoyment, and it is for that reason mainly that it would have been prudent of them to withdraw to a properly private place before embracing.

Anyhow, that's my opinion on that matter.

 

[DrDeath]

i'm not saying people don't have the right to find happiness anyhow they want (i'm gay for pitys sake) but i do feel that it should be done in private and not public, that's why i find it uncomftable when i see it being done in public.

 

[DaveC426913]

... if i had my hetrosexuals would be banned from romantic displays in public, just like expect you would ban homos from plublic displays of affection if you could. as long its not indecent or immoral then what's the problem?

Agreed. It is not an "orientationist" issue at all.

Society generally regards sex as a private act. (Note that, while there are certainly lots of sexy advertizements, a surprising few actually show overt sexual intimacy between two* people).

Overt displays of groping and face-swallowing or worse are frowned upon regardless of the people. It is the couple's* actions, not their identities that are targeted with disdain.


*two or more - let's not get "numberist"!

 

[arildno]

Caveat: I find it more disturbing to inadvertently stumble upon a SINGLE person engaged in a private act than a couple..

ONE or more produces discomfort..

 

[DrDeath]

but youve got more chance of being able to join the single person then you have of joining the couple!

 

[wolram]

The more gay guys there are, the more chance i have of geting a girl friend,
so, rock on tommy, sorry the original question, i think it is all in the
mind.

 

[DrDeath]

you mean the old " i think I'm gay, therefore i am gay" philosophy?

 

[DrDeath]

p.s wolram, i could walk into a party a walk out again with pretty much any woman i wanted. just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm not attractive to women and don't know how to charm them.

 

[wolram]

you mean the old " i think I'm gay, therefore i am gay" philosophy?

I am only grasping at straws Doc, like i grew up in the country and love its
aromas, city folk turn there noses up and put a hankie over it, i am the same
with cities, i can not get out fast enough, heck who knows there may be
some synapses connected differently, i have read of violent people becoming
placid after a head trauma, other than that i am just prattling.

 

[DrDeath]

actually it may be as good a theory as any other that's come up so far, homosexual tendencies may simply be caused by a difference in body chemistry/hormones, which would therefore plonk it into the biologically caused category.

 

[arildno]

I happen to think it has more to do with chemical variations in the environment of the foetus than with genetics per se, but that's my quirky theory.

 

[DrDeath]

there are way too many possiabilties and not enough answers, how much do you think it would cost to commision a scientific study into this problem.

 

[wolram]

there are way too many possiabilties and not enough answers, how much do you think it would cost to commision a scientific study into this problem.

Well just think your selfs lucky, what ever the out come, i do not see another human for days at a time, and it will get worse when i start my new
job workining 10 to 6, so stop being such egotists and think of poor old me.

 

[DrDeath]

why is it your comment doesn't tie in at all with the quote? anyway I'm no egotist i just like to try and find out the answers to things

 

[wolram]

why is it your comment doesn't tie in at all with the quote? anyway I'm no egotist i just like to try and find out the answers to things

I hope i am not a bad human doc, an you find what you are looking for, other than m y best wishes what can i give.

 

[arildno]

Well, you're being rather cryptic here, wolram!
Perhaps you think it is easier for gays to meet up with someone for the night.
Maybe it is, but then again, that's what it is for the most part: For the night, and little else.

 

[DrDeath]

your definatly not a bad human (as far as i know) wolram, thanks for the best wishes though, Xxxx

 

[DrDeath]

speak for yourself about the one night thing, i actually go in for the long term relationships my-self, although theirs nothing wrong with one nighters if that's what you into!

 

[wolram]

Well, you're being rather cryptic here, wolram!
Perhaps you think it is easier for gays to meet up with someone for the night.
Maybe it is, but then again, that's what it is for the most part: For the night, and little else.

oh, i would like to kick you to , some reality, dreams are good, but focus on what you want, if it is not in the soup, then you are wrong.

 

[DrDeath]

your absolutly right dreams are good and we should focus on what we really want. sometimes the two things are one and the same. but we're digressing again (god I'm such a nag).

p.s. in particular reality you want him kicked to, as long it contains butterflys I am sure he'll be happy there.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

I'd say it's nature, and not partly both. Whether or not a person comes out as a homosexual is dependent on nuture though.

 

[arildno]

speak for yourself about the one night thing, i actually go in for the long term relationships my-self, although theirs nothing wrong with one nighters if that's what you into!

I wasn't speaking about myself in general (that's why I put the "maybe" there)
I was trying to understand wolram's obscure posts.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hmm..IvanSeeking, you are shifting the issue!
You are the one implying that 85% of female seagulls feel revulsion at the thought of what the remaining 15% do.
That is a hardly substantiated claim.

Really it was a statistic cited by a biologist that I have always found amusing.

But, really, I don't have the patience to argue with a guy who begs to keep his revulsion of me and other gays pure and inviolate.

I never said that you revulse me, in fact, I like you. I said that I am instictually offended by the sight of homosexual behavior. I think you need to understand that for some of us, this is normal. I mean, you can rationalize this any way that you wish, but I know what I feel. I could, probably once be classified as a homophobe. After all, I was taught to believe it is evil according to Catholic beliefs. But I got over this long ago. And in spite of the fact that I have had many gay friends, and a couple who were close friends at that, there is still a biological aspect to this that goes beyond perception.

I think this is more a matter of heterophobia on your part. I get tired of implicity being accused of something for being who I am.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Look, seriously, one of my best buddies in college was bisexual. This is not an issue for me.

Two more thoughts here. First, I had to learn about homosexuality and then try to imagine why. But my interest in girls, my sexual attraction to girls, came long before my knowledge of sex. When I learned about sex with women, it was a total aha moment. No one can tell me that the difference was learned.

 

[loseyourname]

Well, you're being rather cryptic here, wolram!
Perhaps you think it is easier for gays to meet up with someone for the night.
Maybe it is, but then again, that's what it is for the most part: For the night, and little else.

I think it is easier for gay men to hook up for the night, but that's just because they're men, not because they're gay. Straight men would love to just hook up for one night, too, but the women aren't often quite as willing.

 

[loseyourname]

I never said that you revulse me, in fact, I like you. I said that I am instictually offended by the sight of homosexual behavior. I think you need to understand that for some of us, this is normal. I mean, you can rationalize this any way that you wish, but I know what I feel. I could, probably once be classified as a homophobe. After all, I was taught to believe it is evil according to Catholic beliefs. But I got over this long ago. And in spite of the fact that I have had many gay friends, and a couple who were close friends at that, there is still a biological aspect to this that goes beyond perception.

I'd imagine that sometimes this may be the case, sometimes it may not be. I was similar to you when I was much younger, revulsed by the thought of two men together, or even of men being sexual creatures in general (and I never felt this way about women). But my best friend in high school turned out to be gay, and once he came out, I ended up having no problem with it. I even became heavily immersed in gay culture, to the point where half my social time was spent in or around West Hollywood. At this point, not only does homosexuality not in the least bit repulse me, but I'm pretty damn certain that if there were no available women around, I'd gladly turn to men. Not because I consider myself homosexual to any degree, but a man is better than nothing.

It could just be that I became accustomed to homosexuality at the tail end of my formative years. How old were you when you first became "okay with it?" When you first had significant exposure to the gay community?