Hooke's Law should be exponential.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the applicability of Hooke's Law, specifically whether it should be represented by an exponential equation rather than a linear one. Participants explore the implications of spring size and weight on the behavior of springs, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of elasticity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Hooke's Law should be represented with an exponential equation, particularly when considering larger springs where the weight distribution affects the stretching of coils.
  • Others suggest that the ideal model of a spring in Hooke's Law assumes perfect elasticity and negligible weight, implying that deviations from this model could lead to discrepancies between theory and practice.
  • A participant mentions that systems with a non-vanishing linear term in Taylor series expansions behave linearly for small perturbations, suggesting that Hooke's Law is effective in practice despite its simplicity.
  • One participant reiterates the idea that while Hooke's Law applies to the deformation of springs, the tension varies along the length of the spring, complicating the uniform application of the law.
  • There is a discussion about the limits of Hooke's Law, noting that it may fail under large deformations, but this is not necessarily dependent on the size of the spring or the effects of gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Hooke's Law and whether an exponential model is more appropriate. No consensus is reached regarding the necessity of an exponential representation or the implications of spring weight on deformation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumptions about spring weight and elasticity, as well as the conditions under which Hooke's Law is expected to hold true. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of these factors.

JCienfuegos
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I was just thinking, shouldn't hooke's law be represented with an exponential equation?
I am thinking that in class, the springs we use for the hooke's law experiment are small, but if they were very large, then the higher coils would be sustaining much more weight than the lower coils, and would thus be stretched more. I think this would lend itself more to an exponential model.
 
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I guess the ideal model spring represented in Mr Hooke's law is one that is perfectly elastic and quite weightless. :wink:

Feel free to come up with a more accurate model for the ones in your lab. But be warned, you'll then have to look for some other plausible reason for your measurements not tallying so well with theory. Inaccurate modelling is always such a convenient excuse for general disagreement between theory and practice! :biggrin:
 
If you are familiar with Taylor series expansions, then you can understand that any system with a non-vanishing linear term in the expansion will behave close to linear for a perturbation from the equilibrium point sufficiently small. So, Hooke's law is trivial, but it works pretty well in practice.
 
JCienfuegos said:
I was just thinking, shouldn't hooke's law be represented with an exponential equation?
I am thinking that in class, the springs we use for the hooke's law experiment are small, but if they were very large, then the higher coils would be sustaining much more weight than the lower coils, and would thus be stretched more. I think this would lend itself more to an exponential model.
Hooke's law states that the strain (deformation) is proportional to the stress (tension, force). How will this be modified by the weight of the spring?
The deformation won't be uniform (as it is for weightless or horizontal spring on a table) but Hooke's law still applies as it is. In each piece of spring, the deformation will be proportional to the tension in that region. However the tension varies along the spring.
You can apply Hooke's law to find the deformation of an elastic bar or cable under its own weight.

Only if the deformation is too large Hooke's law will fail but this is not really related to the size of the spring or the existence of gravity. If you take a very small spring and you pull it hard enough, it won't get back to original size and shape. This is an example of non-elastic behavior.
 

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