How are diamagnets repelled from high field regions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of diamagnetic materials in the presence of a strong magnetic field, specifically how they are repelled from high-field regions. Participants explore the interactions between the magnetic fields B, H, and the magnetization M, and how these relate to the expected behavior of diamagnets in an electromagnet setup.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a diamagnet should be attracted to both poles of an electromagnet, particularly the S pole where the field is stronger, but questions this assumption based on the induced magnetic moment.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between the magnetic fields B and H, indicating that the relationship between them is not straightforward near the ends of the object.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how an induced moment in a diamagnet cancels the field inside it rather than strengthening it, questioning the directionality of the field lines.
  • One participant explains the relationship between B, H, and M, noting that for a diamagnet with negative susceptibility, the magnetization M points in the opposite direction to H, which may clarify the behavior of the diamagnet.
  • Another participant corrects a diagram presented by a participant, stating that the effective magnetic poles of the diamagnet are determined by M, not B or H.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the directional relationships between B, H, and M in the context of their diagrams, expressing confusion about their orientations.
  • It is noted that while B and H point to the right, M points to the left in the discussed diagram, leading to the conclusion that B is less than H within the diamagnet.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of diamagnets in magnetic fields, particularly regarding the interactions of B, H, and M. There is no consensus on the expected behavior of diamagnets in high-field regions, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationships between the magnetic fields and the induced moments in diamagnetic materials, indicating that assumptions about field directionality and interactions may vary based on the specific context and definitions used.

cf123
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Imagine an electromagnet with two pole faces, one flat (N) and one pointed (S). If you put a diamagnet in between them, I know that it will be attracted to the high-field region (i.e. the S pole where the field lines are more concentrated).

On the other hand, they always say that diamagnets will have an induced moment that cancels the field inside of them. That would mean that the diamagnet in this example could be viewed as a dipole, with its N pole closer to the pointed S pole of the electromagnet, and with its S pole closer to the flat N pole of the external magnet.

I would, from this analysis, then expect my diamagnet to be attracted to both poles of the electromagnet, but more so to the pole with the higher field: the S pole. That is paramagnetic behavior, and obviously this is completely wrong. What am I missing?
 
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A diamagnet would have its South pole closer to the South Pole of the electromagnetic. I think you may be confusing the relation between B and H. B will not simply equal mu H near the end of the object.
 
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I understand that the diamagnet would have to have its SP closer to the SP of the electromagnet, in order to make the forces work out correctly in this example. What I do not understand is how having an induced moment in that direction would cancel the field inside the object, and not make it stronger... (The field lines from the electromagnet would run S-->N and the field lines inside the dipole would run parallel, not antiparallel to that...)
 
You have to distinguish between the 3 fields, B, H, M. When you say "field lines" which field do you mean?
In a rod with no magnetic properties, B and H are the same inside and out, and M=0. I am using Gaussian units so that we can compare B and H without mu0. If the rod has negative susceptibility (mu<1), with B = mu H,
B inside the rod will be less than it was before, and H inside the rod
will be greater. Since B-H=4pi M, M will be in the opposite direction.
Outside the rod, B equals H and both are weaker than they were with no susceptibility.
If you draw a picture of the rod with zero susceptibility, and then one for negative susceptibility, putting in all three fields on each I think the situation should be clear.
The B and H fields will always be in the direction of the external magnetic field in each case. The magnetization field, M, will always be in the opposite direction.
I hope this helps.
 
Alright, my understanding is this:

For a diamagnetic material, u<1 and B=uH = H+4piM.

Therefore, M must point in the opposite direction of H, whereas B and H point in the same direction.

Now, I draw a picture:

eN S----->N eS

eN=electromagnet north pole,N=diamagnet north pole, etc. That is, we place our diamagnetic dipole in between two poles of an electromagnet, with its moment opposing the field.

If, then we say that due to the shape of the electromagnet, the region near eS is higher field than the region near eN, won't this diamagnet be attracted to the high field region?

Thanks for your help!
 
Your picture is wrong. It should be eN N<----------------<S eS.
There is effective magnetic surface charge at each end of the diamagnetic given by ##{\bf M\cdot{\hat n}}##. This puts a S Pole at the right and a N pole at the left. It is M, not B or H that determines the effective magnetic poles.
 
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I'm sorry for asking so many questions. How are B, H, and M not all pointing the same direction in your picture? Won't the vectors point in the same direction (S to N and eS to eN) in your picture?
 
B and H are to the right, but M is to the left in that picture.
This makes B<H in the diamagnet.
 

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