How Can Experienced Mathematicians Tackle Challenging Number Theory Problems?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Fisicks
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Number theory Theory
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around strategies for tackling challenging number theory problems, specifically focusing on two problems involving Fibonacci and Lucas numbers, as well as representations of integers in base 3. Participants share their approaches, proofs, and challenges encountered while solving these problems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their approach to the first problem, proposing a unique representation of integers in base 3 using coefficients from the set {-1, 0, 1}.
  • Another participant suggests forming a one-to-one correspondence between nonzero integers in base 3 and the integers described in the problem, indicating that induction could be a viable method for the second problem.
  • A different participant elaborates on the proof for the first problem, discussing the uniqueness of representations and posing questions about the number of elements in the set C_s.
  • For the second problem, a participant references an identity involving Fibonacci and Lucas numbers and suggests strengthening the induction hypothesis to facilitate the proof.
  • One participant questions the completeness of the representation in C_s, indicating a potential discrepancy in the number of integers expressible in the proposed form.
  • Another participant clarifies the number of terms in C_s and the maximum and minimum values, correcting an earlier misunderstanding about the number of elements.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the clarification received, indicating a learning moment related to convergence in mathematical contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the completeness of the integer representations in C_s, with some asserting that not all integers can be represented while others provide clarifications that suggest otherwise. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these representations and the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the representations in C_s, including the treatment of zero and the implications for the maximum and minimum values derived from the series. The discussion highlights dependencies on definitions and the need for further exploration of the identities involved.

Fisicks
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
I have wrestled with the following two problems for a couple of hours each and have been successful. Now I am interested in how a more experienced mathematician would go about solving these.

I encourage you to look past my lack of latex skills (lol), and do your best with the attachment I poorly put together.

A note about the second problem, If anyone is unaware F denotes the Fibonacci numbers and L denotes the Lucas numbers. Second, the term on the left side is a little blurry but it says the 2n Fibonacci number. Also I challenge you to solve this second problem without strong induction. Which I semi-managed to do. I proved a secondary result with strong induction then used that result to use regular induction on the main problem.
 

Attachments

  • untitled.JPG
    untitled.JPG
    24.3 KB · Views: 469
Physics news on Phys.org
I have not completely worked out the first one, but I would try to form a one-to-one correspondence between the nonzero integers in base 3 and the nonzero integers in the form given by the problem.

For the second, induction seems like a good way to go. However, if you have derived the closed form formulas for both, the result follows immediately.
 
First problem:

The way I proved it was to prove for a fixed s, every integer in n with absolute value less than or equal to [itex]3^0 + 3^1 + \cdots + 3^s[/itex] can be expressed uniquely in the form:
[tex]\sum_{j=0}^s c_j 3^j[/tex]
with [itex]c_j \in \{-1,0,1\}[/itex] (I don't require that c_s is non-zero, since if it is we can just pick the largest j with c_j non-zero, and if all c_j are 0, then we are in the exceptional case where n=0).

First proving uniqueness suppose:
[tex]\sum_{j=0}^s c_j 3^j = \sum_{j=0}^s d_j 3^j[/tex]
with [itex]c_j, d_j \in \{-1,0,1\}[/itex]. You can show [itex]c_j=d_j[/itex] for all j.

Let
[tex]C_s = \left\{\sum_{j=0}^s c_j 3^j | c_j \in \{-1,0,1\}\right\}[/tex]
Try to work out:
1) How many elements are in C_s?
2) What is the maximum and minimum element of C_s?
When you answer these you should be able to show that C_s = {-N,-N+1,...,N-1,N} where
[tex]N = 3^0 + 3^1 + \cdots + 3^s[/tex]
 
Second problem:

I assume you know the identity (otherwise you can easily show it):
[tex]L_n = F_{n-1} + F_{n+1}[/tex]
Then your identity is equivalent to:
[tex]F_{2n} = F_nF_{n+1}+F_nF_{n-1}[/tex]
Now let us strengthen to induction hypothesis to also say:
[tex]F_{2n+1} = F_{n+2}F_{n+1}-F_nF_{n-1}[/tex]
Then you can perform a normal inductive argument (there are some slightly messy calculations, but unless you already know some identities involving Lucas numbers and Fibonacci numbers I don't immediately see a cleaner way).
 
Thanks for the reply rasmhop. One question.

In one element of C_s, there are S terms. Each term may be assigned either -1, 0, or 1. Thus there are 3^s combinations and C_s includes 3^s elements. But if your right, C_s should include 2N+1 elements. Therefore I can conclude that not every integer (absolute value) less than N can be expressed in your form.

Who is at fault here?
 
Fisicks said:
In one element of C_s, there are S terms. Each term may be assigned either -1, 0, or 1. Thus there are 3^s combinations and C_s includes 3^s elements.
0,1,2,...,s are s+1 numbers so there are s+1 terms, and thus C_s contains 3^(s+1) elements.

The maximal value of an element of C_s is:
[tex]N=3^0 + 3^1 + \cdots + 3^s = \frac{3^{s+1}-1}{3-1} = \frac{3^{s-1}-1}{2}[/tex]
and the minimal is -N. 2N+1 = 3^(s+1).
 
Thanks for showing me the light lol. I always forget about that zero, which hurt me a lot on exams working with convergence.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 100 ·
4
Replies
100
Views
13K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 107 ·
4
Replies
107
Views
20K
  • · Replies 86 ·
3
Replies
86
Views
24K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 82 ·
3
Replies
82
Views
16K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
17K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K