How could this group possibly have elements of this order?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the orders of elements in the group Z_45 and the implications of Lagrange's Theorem. Participants explore the possibility of elements of order 2 and examine counting arguments related to subgroup structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the existence of elements of order 2 in Z_45, considering Lagrange's Theorem. They discuss counting arguments based on examples from other groups like Z_60 and Z_12, and raise questions about the mathematical correctness of listing elements of a certain order.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing examples and questioning assumptions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correctness of arguments, but there is no explicit consensus on the existence of elements of order 2 in Z_45.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the implications of group theory concepts, particularly Lagrange's Theorem, and the specific properties of Z_45. There is an ongoing examination of subgroup indices and the nature of elements within these groups.

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Homework Statement


resulto3.jpg


It seems to me that every element of Z_45 has order 1, 3, 5, 9, 15, or 45. It seems impossible to have an element of order 2 by Lagrange's Theorem.

Is there another way of looking at this problem?
 
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For example, (30,0,0,0) has order 2.

jdinatale said:

Homework Statement


resulto3.jpg


It seems to me that every element of Z_45 has order 1, 3, 5, 9, 15, or 45. It seems impossible to have an element of order 2 by Lagrange's Theorem.

Is there another way of looking at this problem?
 
micromass said:
For example, (30,0,0,0) has order 2.

I see! Do you think a counting argument would be acceptable? For example there are two elements of order 2 in Z_60, (0 and 30), one element of order 2 in Z_45 (0), two elements of order 2 in Z_12 (0 and 6) and two elements of order 2 in Z_36 (0 and 18)

So it seems to me, all of the elements of order 2 in A would be:

(0, 0, 0, 0)
(0, 0, 0, 18)
(0, 0, 6, 0)
(0, 0, 6, 18)
(30, 0, 0, 0)
(30, 0, 6, 0)
(30, 0, 0, 18)
(30, 0, 6, 18)

So 8 elements, correct?
 
(0,0,0,0) does not have order 2.
 
micromass said:
(0,0,0,0) does not have order 2.

Oh thank you, you are correct. Is my argument mathematically correct where I just list out all of the possible elements of order 2?

Also, do you know of a better way to look at the number of subgroups of index 2 in A?
 
Yes, the rest of what you did is absolutely correct!
 

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