How do gravitons mediate the force of gravitation in universe ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the role of gravitons in mediating the force of gravitation, exploring both theoretical implications and the relationship between quantum mechanics (QM) and general relativity (GR). It includes considerations of spacetime curvature, gravity waves, and the mathematical frameworks used to describe these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that gravitons are hypothetical and question the fundamental nature of the "how" regarding their mediation of gravitational force.
  • One participant describes gravity as caused by spacetime curvature, distinguishing between static curvature (force-causing) and wave-like curvature (gravity waves) that carries kinetic energy.
  • It is proposed that gravity waves can be expressed mathematically as a sum of gravitons, although this remains a hypothesis and is not confirmed at high energy levels.
  • Another participant references the analogy between gravity and quantum electromagnetism, suggesting that the mathematical treatment of gravitational interactions may mirror that of electromagnetic interactions.
  • Discussions include the role of gauge theories, with references to how interactions can be described without invoking virtual particles at zeroth order, focusing instead on potential interactions.
  • Historical context is provided regarding Dirac's original formulation of quantum radiation, separating static and radiation fields in electromagnetic theory.
  • There is mention of the complexities in non-abelian gauge theories, where interactions are described by non-local operators rather than simple particle exchange.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of gravitons and their role in gravitational interactions, with no consensus reached on the validity of the proposed models or the implications of the mathematical frameworks discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between QM and GR, particularly regarding the assumptions made in extrapolating QM to gravitational contexts and the unresolved status of mathematical constructions used.

Redi
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How do gravitons mediate the force of gravitation in universe ?
 
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Gravitons are hypothetical.
And "how" is not something physics can answer on a fundamental level - and that question is very fundamental.
 


Redi said:
How do gravitons mediate the force of gravitation in universe ?

Gravity is caused by the spacetime curvature. There are also waves of the spacetime curvature, the gravity waves. These are two forms of spacetime curvature. They are quite different.

The "gravity" (force-causing) curvature is non-wave-like, may be static and does not carry kinetic energy.
The "wave" curvature is never static, is wave-like (satisfies some wave equation) and does carry kinetic energy.

From the QM standpoint the gravity waves are some elementary particles. We call them gravitons. This is due to the particle-wave duality. Every particle is a wave, every wave is a particle. In case of gravitons this is of course a hypothesis, since we had to extrapolate QM to the GR realm and we don't know if QM still holds at that energy level.

Now, to your question. Mathematically, you can express non-wave-like curvature as a weighted sum of different gravity waves, at least to the first order. This is also true the other way - you can express a gravity wave as a sum of non-wave-like spacetime deformations, to the first order. This is a purely mathematical trick. But it QM it's a basis of some important theorems. We can deduce much about the gravitational force knowing it can be rewritten as a sum of gravitons. It doesn't mean that there are some actual gravitons flying here and there. It's just a part of QM formalism.

We don't know if the above construction is sound. Physicists invented it as an analogy to the quantum electromagnetism. This approach turned to be very useful. The force between charged particles, mediated by the electromagnetic field was expressed as sum of photons, the electromagnetic field quanta (waves). Maybe this is also the case with massive particles and the gravity field (the spacetime curvature).
 
For ordinary gauge theories like QED and QCD there are so-called physical gauges (e.g. Coulomb gauge) where gauge fixing = solving the Gauß constraint introduces a "potential". That means that to zeroth order no virtual particle exchange is required to explain the interaction. E.g. the el.-mag. force is described via a 1/r potential; photons are required for corrections only.
 
Yes, and in the original (1926) formulation of the quantum theory of radiation by Dirac, the electromagnetic field was separated into a radiation field and a static Coulomb interaction. The radiation field was then subjected to the usual quantum procedure, while the Coulomb interaction was treated as an unquantized classical interaction potential.
 
And this can be made exact, at least for abelian gauge theories; for non-abelian gauge theories the "potential" turns out to be a non-local, gauge-field dependent operator; anyway - it is NOT something like the exchange of perturbative virtual particles.
 

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