How do I use implicit differentiation to solve these two questions?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of implicit differentiation to solve two specific problems involving logarithmic and exponential functions. Participants are exploring how to differentiate equations where y is not treated as a constant.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss differentiating both sides of the equations while considering y as a function of x. There are attempts to clarify the use of the product rule and chain rule in implicit differentiation. Some participants express confusion about specific terminology and the steps involved in the differentiation process.

Discussion Status

Several participants have offered guidance on how to approach the differentiation, emphasizing the importance of treating y as a function of x. There are attempts to clarify the differentiation process, but no consensus has been reached on the correctness of the attempts shared.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the pressure of an upcoming exam, which may influence their urgency and the depth of their responses. There is also a mention of uncertainty regarding specific terms and methods used in implicit differentiation.

Ry122
Messages
563
Reaction score
2
Im having trouble solving these two questions. I don't know where to start so I can't give an attempt at either of them. Please tell me how to do the full question if you can cause i can't check back until morning then i have to go to an exam.

http://www.users.on.net/~rohanlal/one.jpg
http://www.users.on.net/~rohanlal/two.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
First differentiate the LHS remembering that a dx will pop up then the same for the RHS then divide to find dy/dx.
 
Simply differentiate both sides like you are used to, but keep in mind that y is not a constant! The derivative of y is [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}[/tex] so you should leave that in the equation. Then you will find an equation which you can solve for dy/dx.

I don't know what dirk_mec means by 'a dx will pop up' though. Perhaps take a look at the following example (to not give away the answer I use a different example):

[tex]y \sin x = x^3 + \cos y[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dx}(y \sin x) = \frac{d}{dx}(x^3) + \frac{d}{dx}(\cos y)[/tex]
[tex](\sin x)\frac{dy}{dx} + y \cos x = 3x^2 - (\sin y) \frac{dy}{dx}[/tex]
[tex](\sin x + \sin y) \frac{dy}{dx} = 3x^2 - y \cos x[/tex]
[tex]\frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{ 3x^2 - y \cos x}{\sin x + \sin y}[/tex]

Note the use of the product rule on the LHS in the third line!This is called implicit differentiation. Often you can rewrite a function to read 'y = f(x)' (where f is some function). But in this case this is impossible, so you have to use implicit differentiation.
 
Last edited:
Here are my attempts:
x^2=ln(x+y)
2x=(1/x)(1/y)dy/dx
2(x^2)y=dy/dx

e^(xy)=x+4
u=xy
u'=(1)(1)(dy/dx)
(1)(1)(dy/dx)e=1
(dy/dx)=1/e

They're both wrong.
 
Ry122 said:
Here are my attempts:
x^2=ln(x+y)
2x=(1/x)(1/y)dy/dx
2(x^2)y=dy/dx

[tex]\ln(x+y) = \frac{1}{x +y}\left(1 + \frac{dy}{dx}\right)[/tex]

In general, the derivative of [itex]\ln f(x)[/itex] is [itex]\frac{1}{f(x)}\frac{df}{dx}[/itex], as per the chain rule. In this case, f(x) = x + y(x) (y is a function of x).

e^(xy)=x+4
u=xy
u'=(1)(1)(dy/dx)
(1)(1)(dy/dx)e=1
(dy/dx)=1/e

They're both wrong.

This is just an application of the chain rule again, keeping in mind that y is a function of x. There's no need to introduce u.

[tex]\frac{d}{dx}e^{xy} = e^{xy}\frac{d}{dx}(xy) = e^{xy}\left(y + x\frac{dy}{dx}\right)[/tex]
 
So for ln(x+y)
its 1/(x+y) multiplied by the derivative of what's inside the parenthesis?
 
Ry122 said:
So for ln(x+y)
its 1/(x+y) multiplied by the derivative of what's inside the parenthesis?

Yes.

And for [tex]e^{xy}[/tex] it's [tex]\frac{d}{dx} e^{xy} = e^{xy} \frac{d}{dx}(xy)[/tex]
(don't forget the product rule!)

So in words, the derivative of exp(f(x)) is simply exp(f(x)) multiplied by the derivative of f(x).So to get you started with the second one, this is the first step:
[tex]e^{xy} = x + 4[/tex]
[tex]e^{xy} \frac{d}{dx}(xy) = \frac{d}{dx}(x+4)[/tex]
[tex]e^{xy} \left( y + x \frac{dy}{dx} \right) = 1[/tex]
...
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K