How do we know protons, neutrons and electrons exist?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of protons, neutrons, and electrons, as well as the nature of electric charge. Participants explore the historical context of atomic discovery, the conventions surrounding charge, and the fundamental questions regarding the nature of charge itself.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the fundamental nature of electric charge and what constitutes positive and negative charge.
  • A link is provided to a resource that explains the historical discovery of atomic particles, suggesting a structured understanding of the topic.
  • One participant notes that the designation of electric charges as positive or negative is a convention, and highlights the existence of two types of electric charges, contrasting this with the six types of color charges in particle physics.
  • There is mention of unresolved questions regarding the cause of charge and the peculiarities of fractional charge in quarks, indicating a lack of complete understanding in the field.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the nature of charge, seeking clarification on what gives rise to charge in objects.
  • A participant attempts to clarify the distinction between mass and charge, noting that mass is a universal property while charge is not, and that gravitational force is always attractive while electric force can be both attractive and repulsive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the fundamental nature of charge and its origins, with no consensus reached on these questions. There are competing views regarding the definitions and implications of charge.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the fundamental nature of charge, the dependence on conventions for naming charges, and the complexities surrounding fractional charge in quarks.

ascendant
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How do we know protons, neutrons and electrons exist? And what exactly is a positive or negative charge?... meaning what is it that makes it positive or negative.
 
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We know that there are two types of electric charges. Which one you call positive and which one you call negative is purely a convention. There are some symmetries in particle physics that tell you that there really are exactly two types of electric charges.

In contrast, there are 6 types of color charges, which are responsible for nuclear forces. They are conventionally called red, green, blue, anti-red, anti-green, and anti-blue. These are just names, though. No relation to visible colors. So there is no fundamental reason why there should be just "positive" and "negative" electric charge, at least none that we see so far, but there are exactly two.

What actually causes charge, and why it can only change by whole numbers is still unknown. Fractional charge of quarks is also a big mystery so far. They can still only change their charge by 1, but it is a flip between +2/3 and -1/3, which is a bit strange.
 
thank you Sakha. And K^2 sorry but you confused me. I basically mean what is a charge? what is it about the object that gives off this thing that we call charge.
 
That's what we don't know.
 
ascendant said:
I basically mean what is a charge? what is it about the object that gives off this thing that we call charge.

I think it's helpful to visualize these patterns:

Mass and charge are two basic properties of matter.

Mass - all matter has it. Charge - some matter has it and some doesn't.

Mass - there is just one kind, so it always has a positive sign. Charge -there are two kinds, so we give it positive and negative signs.

Due to mass, gravitational force always attracts. Due to charge, electric force sometimes attracts and sometimes repels.
 

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