How Do You Calculate the Uncertainty in the Derivative of y = a / (x - b)^3?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the uncertainty in the derivative of the function y = a / (x - b)³, where the parameters a, b, and x have associated uncertainties. Participants are exploring how to appropriately account for these uncertainties in the derivative y'.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the differential of y to approximate the uncertainty in y', questioning the validity of this approach given the size of the uncertainties in a, b, and x. Some suggest computing y' for all combinations of the extreme values of a, b, and x to find the maximum and minimum values of y'.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of different methods to calculate the uncertainty in y'. Some participants have provided guidance on using the differential approach, while others express skepticism about its applicability due to the size of the uncertainties involved. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being considered.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the uncertainties in a and b are relatively large compared to x, which raises concerns about the appropriateness of the methods being discussed. The increments for a and b are highlighted as particularly significant.

Xizel
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y = a / (x - b)3

a = 77.1 ± 15.2
b = -1.78 ± 1.18
x = 21 ± 1

---

y' = -3a / (x - b)4

How do I find the uncertainty of y'? Thanks.
 
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Xizel said:
y = a / (x - b)3

a = 77.1 ± 15.2
b = -1.78 ± 1.18
x = 21 ± 1

---

y' = -3a / (x - b)4

How do I find the uncertainty of y'? Thanks.
You can use the differential of y (dy) to approximate the uncertainty in y. Here, because a, b, and x are varying, what you have is y' = f(a, b, x) = ##\frac {-3a} {(x - b)^4}##.
So ##\Delta y' \approx dy' = \frac{\partial f}{\partial a} da + \frac{\partial f}{\partial b} db + \frac{\partial f}{\partial x} dx##
For da, db, dx, use the ± values above.
 
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Xizel said:
y = a / (x - b)3

a = 77.1 ± 15.2
b = -1.78 ± 1.18
x = 21 ± 1

---

y' = -3a / (x - b)4

How do I find the uncertainty of y'? Thanks.

You can compute y' for all 8 values a = 77.1 - 15.2, 77.1 + 15.2, b = -1.78 - 1.18, -1.78 + 1.18, x = 21-1, 21+1. Since that might be tedious, you can try to figure out ahead of time where the extreme values of y' will be found. The largest value of ##|y'| = 3 a / |x-b|^4## will occur when the numerator is as large as possible and the denominator is a small as possible. The minimum of ##|y'|## will be found from conditions opposite to those above.

I am a bit skeptical about using the formula for ##\Delta y'## given in #2, because in this case the ##da, db## are not "small" (but, perhaps, ##dx## is small enough).
 
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Ray Vickson said:
I am a bit skeptical about using the formula for ##\Delta y'## given in #2, because in this case the ##da, db## are not "small" (but, perhaps, ##dx## is small enough).
That thought also occurred to me. Even ##\Delta x## is not all that small, at about 5% of x. The increments for a and b are much worse.
 

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