How Do You Determine Turbine Diameter and Number of Poles for a Pelton Turbine?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on determining the turbine diameter and the number of poles for a Pelton turbine, focusing on the relationship between water head, jet velocity, turbine bucket velocity, and generator specifications. Participants explore theoretical and practical considerations in turbine design and generator compatibility.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the jet velocity of water is determined by the head (H) using the formula V = sqrt(2gH) and suggests that for maximum energy transfer, the turbine bucket velocity should equal V(b) = V/2.
  • Another participant proposes that desired power output should influence the size of the Pelton wheel.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how power output factors into the design and requests clarification on specific speed, referencing its definition from a wiki source.
  • One participant provides a formula for maximum power (Pmax = ρghQ) and discusses how it relates to the volume flow rate (Q) and the size of the turbine buckets, suggesting that guidelines exist for optimal sizing.
  • There is mention of the relationship between nozzle size and bucket size, indicating that multiple jets can be used to increase power or adjust jet size for the same power output.
  • Another participant speculates on the factors influencing the number of poles in the generator, including voltage, current, and wire capacity, but acknowledges a lack of expertise in electrical generators.
  • Specific speed is described as a concept for comparing geometrically similar turbines, potentially aiding in design decisions, though its applicability to the current design scenario is questioned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the factors influencing turbine design, including power output and specific speed. There is no consensus on how to integrate these factors into a definitive design approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions and dependencies, such as the relationship between jet and bucket sizes, the influence of power output on design, and the role of specific speed in turbine comparisons. However, these aspects remain unresolved and are subject to further exploration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals involved in turbine design, engineering students studying fluid mechanics, and professionals working with hydroelectric power systems.

I_am_learning
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When I have a certain head (H) of water, this fixes the jet velocity of water as
V = sqrt(2gH). And for maximum energy transfer, turbine bucket velocity should equal,
V(b) = V/2.
Now, I am confused at how do you determine the Turbine diameter and no. of Poles to be used in the generator.
I mean, you could go for, smaller diameter (hence higher RPM to maintain V(b) = V/2) and so, choose lower poles generator (to maintain 50 Hz output), OR you could go for large diameter (hence lower RPM to maintain V(b) = V/2) and choose higher Poles generator (to maintain 50Hz output).
How do you decide?
Ask if something isn't clear.
Thanks
 
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I would think that desired power output would be a factor in the size of Pelton wheel.
 
Yes power must come into consideration, but I can't find how.
Can somebody also explain me about specific speed, it seems to be necessary here. Wiki says, the specific speed of a turbine is the speed at which a geometrically similar unit would run if it were exposed to Q = 1 and H = 1.
How does that help me?
 
Last edited:
I am not a Pelton wheel expert but

Power : Pmax = ρghQ

So from that, and solving for Q, the volume flow rate, you know how much fluid the buckets of the Pelton wheel need to discharge, and necessarily their size. ( There must be a guideline to find that out somewhere which gives optimal size )
This is in relation to the nozzle size which has to discharge Q at the bucket, and you can calculate the nozzle diameter, or more specificialy the jet diameter, and a corresponding bucket size. Note that you can add more jets for increased power, or for the same power decrease the jet size with multiple jets.

As for the number of poles on the generator, someone versed in electrical generators might answer that in more detail, but i would imagine it has something to do with volts, current, and how much copper wire you can wind around the poles in the generator in the given space, taking into account the current carrying capacity of the wire.

Specific speed relates to dimensional analyis comparing one turbine to another geometrically similar - scale model to the real thing quite possibly, or adding another turbine to an existing facility. I am not sure if that helps you out as you seem to be designing from scratch.

I hope that helps you get started.
Please take into account that I am out on a linb here.
 

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