How Do You Integrate the Square Root of Tangent?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter shaiqbashir
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integration
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral of the square root of the tangent function, specifically the expression \int{\sqrt{\tan x}dx}. Participants explore various methods of integration, including substitution and integration by parts, while seeking to clarify discrepancies in their approaches and results.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests assistance with the integral \int{\sqrt{\tan x}dx} due to an impending assignment deadline.
  • Another suggests that integration by parts might be a viable method, though they do not find an obvious path forward.
  • Substitution methods are proposed, including \tan{x}=t and x = arctan(u), leading to different forms of the integral.
  • Discrepancies in results from different substitution methods are noted, with one participant questioning the validity of their findings.
  • Some participants assert that the integrals derived from different substitutions are indeed different, while others express confusion over the apparent discrepancies.
  • Further exploration of integration techniques, including partial fractions, is suggested by participants as they attempt to simplify the integral.
  • One participant mentions an online solution to the integral, which they share for insight, while others express skepticism about its correctness.
  • Discussion includes various proposed forms of the integral's solution, with some participants asserting their correctness while others remain uncertain.
  • There are multiple references to using computational tools like Maple to verify results, with mixed opinions on their reliability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach or final answer to the integral. Multiple competing views and methods are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of different solutions and the correctness of derived forms.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying their substitutions and the conditions under which their integrals are valid. There are unresolved mathematical steps and differing interpretations of the results obtained from various integration techniques.

  • #31
Yes, it looks like it could be equilvalent.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
If you're doubting the calculations exposed above and,incidentally,not shortcut,why won't you put a pencil in your precious hand and grab a piece of paper and do it...?

Sides,Maple is a known f***-up.

Actually I was working on this problem myself and thought it could be done by partial fractions after arriving at

2\int \frac{t^{2}}{1+t^{4}}\dt, I wasn't aware of the trick to progress towards the next step though

Your final form seems fine, however, I'll need to do some research on what makes such a partial fraction capable of integration (just finished int. calc this spring). Perhaps when I find the time, I'll try solving it p&p, just thought it could be done through Maple or Matlab. Isn't this a table integral (the OP's integral)?

It would also be appropriate for the final answer to be posted conclusively, if your final form proves to be right, good for you...and all of us, if not (I would be surprised if it isn't), than let's move on to see exactly why.
 
Last edited:
  • #33
Yes.It's [1]:

\int \frac{x^{2}}{A+Bx^{4}} \ dx=\left\{\begin{array}{c} \frac{1}{4B\alpha\sqrt{2}}\left(\ln\frac{x^{2}-\alpha x\sqrt{2}+\alpha^{2}}{x^{2}+\alpha x\sqrt{2}+\alpha^{2}}+2\arctan\frac{\alpha x\sqrt{2}}{\alpha^{2}-x^{2}}\right) \ \mbox{if} \ AB>0\\ -\frac{1}{4B\alpha'}\left(\ln\frac{x+\alpha'}{x-\alpha'}-2\arctan\frac{x}{\alpha'}\right) \ \mbox{if} \ AB<0 \end{array}\right

,where

\alpha=\sqrt[4]{\frac{A}{B}}

\alpha'=\sqrt[4]{\frac{-A}{B}}.

Daniel.

-------------------------------------------------
[1]G & R,5-th edition,CD version,Academic Press,1996,formula 2.132,3)
 
  • #34
alright, I'll try the good o'l fashioned way. Somebody please check my work,

I=2 \int \frac{t^{2}~dt}{(1+ \sqrt{2}t+t^{2})(1- \sqrt{2}t +t^{2})}

Aside

\frac{t^{2}}{(1+ \sqrt{2}t+t^{2})(1- \sqrt{2}t +t^{2})}=

\frac{Ax+B}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~+~ \frac{Cx+D}{1- \sqrt{2}t+t^{2}}

t^{2}=(Ax+B)(1- \sqrt{2}t +t^{2})+(Cx+D)(1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2})

Ax- \sqrt {2} Axt +Axt^{2} +B - \sqrt{2}Bt +Bt^{2} +Cx + \sqrt{2}Cxt +Cxt^{2} +D + \sqrt{2}Dt +Dt^{2}

=

(Ax+B+Cx+D)t^{2} + (- \sqrt{2} AX - sqrt{2}B + \sqrt{2} Cx + \sqrt{2} D)t +Ax+B+Cx+D



1)Ax+B+Cx+D=1
2)- \sqrt{2} Ax - \sqrt{2} B + \sqrt{2} Cx + \sqrt{2}D=0
3)Ax+B+Cx+D=0

It seems that we have a problem here between 1) and 3), it seems to be due to the similarities of the denominator in the original integral...I've never had to deal with a denominator with two different irreducible fractions.

If I did anything wrong, please point it out, or enlighten me toward the appropriate approach.
 
  • #35
Let's stick to the original "t",so the OP could make the connection with the integral which started the thread.

\frac{At+B}{1+t\sqrt{2}+t^2}+\frac{Ct+D}{1-t\sqrt{2}+t^2}\equiv \frac{t^{2}}{\mbox{product}}

Cross multiplying,one gets the system of equations

\left\{\begin{array}{c} A+C=0\\B+D+C\sqrt{2}-A\sqrt{2}=1\\ A+C+D\sqrt{2}-B\sqrt{2}=0\\B+D=0 \end{array}\right

which has the unique solution

\left\{\begin{array}{cccc} A=-\frac{\sqrt{2}}{4}, & B=0, & C=\frac{\sqrt{2}}{4}, & D=0 \end{array} \right\}

Can u carry on from here...?

Daniel.
 
  • #36
Can you show where GCT went wrong? I followed his procedure and can't spot an error.
 
  • #37
H mixed "t" and "x"...Not to mention that the system of equations should have been variable ('x' or 't' or whatever)-free.

Daniel.
 
  • #38
I spotted the x,t switch but I figured it was a notation issue. Thanks.
 
  • #39
Man...this is not my day

anyways

\left\{\begin{array}{c} A+C=0\\B+D+C\sqrt{2}-A\sqrt{2}=1\\ A+C+D\sqrt{2}-B\sqrt{2}=0\\B+D=0 \end{array}\right

the third and last equation seems to contradict each other, substitute A+C=0 into the third, indicates B=D, the fourth equation indicates B=-D.
 
  • #40
B and D are zero as dex pointed out.
 
  • #41
okay, I worked it out and the solution seems to be similar to #33, an innocent looking integral...turned out to be very nasty in the end.
 
  • #42
here's my work

I=2 \int \frac{- \sqrt{2} t/4}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~+~ \frac{ \sqrt{2} t/4}{1- \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~dt

solving for the first component

\int \frac{(- \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t_)}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~dt~+ <br /> (1/4) \int \frac{1}{1+ \sqrt{2} t +t^{2}}~dt


u=1+ \sqrt{2} t + t^{2},~du= \sqrt{2} + 2t~dt

(- \sqrt{2} / 8) ln(1+ \sqrt{2} t + t^{2}) + ( \sqrt{2} /4) arctan( \sqrt{2} + 1))

the second component turns out to be
( \sqrt{2} / 8) ln (1- \sqrt{2} t + t^{2}) + ( \sqrt{2} /4) <br /> arctan( \sqrt{2} - 1)

adding them up, in nonsimplified form

(- \sqrt{2} / 4) {ln ( \frac {1- \sqrt{2} \sqrt{tanx} + tanx}{1+ \sqrt{2} \sqrt {tanx} + tanx})} + ( \sqrt{2} /2) {(arctan( \sqrt{2} + 1) + arctan( \sqrt{2} - 1)} +C

didn't know the absolute value latex, see any mistakes...let me know
 
  • #43
Can you elaborate on what you did in the first two latex expressions?
 
  • #44
well

\frac{- \sqrt{2} t/4}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}=

\frac{(- \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t_) + (1/4)}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~dt~

Since

u=1+ \sqrt{2} t + t^{2},~du= \sqrt{2} + 2t~dt

you'll first need to find this derivative and sort of work backwards. note that

- \sqrt{2} t/4~=~- \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t_) + (1/4)
 
  • #45
- \sqrt{2} t/4~=~- \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t_) + (1/4)

How did you find this expression? Is there a need to do so?
 
  • #46
It somewhat of a trick I learned in integral calculus this past semester. You'll notice that one of the fractions contains a derivative of the denominator,

First we note that the derivative of

1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}

is \sqrt{2} + 2t

We'll try to arrive at form where we can separate the fraction into two simpler fractions.

\frac{(- \sqrt{2} t/4)}{ 1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}

1)\frac{ \sqrt{2} + 2t}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}

we'll try resolving the numerator

2)\frac{( \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t)}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}

we now have an equivalent "t" coefficient, we'll need to resolve the nonvariable component, first find the nonvariable component turns out to be (- \sqrt{2}/8)*( \sqrt{2})~=~-1/4 thus we'll need to add 1/4

3)\frac{(- \sqrt{2}/8)( \sqrt{2} +2t_) + (1/4)}{1+ \sqrt{2}t +t^{2}}~dt~

which is equivalent to the original form...now you can separate it into two simpler components. Integrate the first using substitution and the second by converting the denominator into a actangent derivative.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K