How does angular momentum create a perpendicular force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of angular momentum and its relationship to forces acting on a spinning wheel, particularly focusing on why the wheel does not fall down when rolling on a string. Participants explore the underlying mechanics and molecular behavior of the wheel in motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a well-known experiment with a rolling wheel and questions how atomic behavior prevents individual atoms from falling.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that the atoms are committed to the wheel's structure, while explaining that linear momentum is conserved, leading to the torques that maintain the wheel's position.
  • A different perspective is offered regarding the relationship between acceleration and angular momentum, noting that the reaction of a spinning wheel to external torque results in precession that occurs 90° after the torque is applied.
  • This same participant discusses how the torque due to gravity is countered by an opposing torque when the wheel is precessing at a constant rate, and mentions the behavior of the center of mass during this process.
  • Another participant asserts that angular momentum does not create a force, but rather that precession creates a torque that balances the gravitational torque, preventing the wheel from rotating downwards.
  • A link to a video is provided as a supplementary resource for further understanding of the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanics of angular momentum and precession, with no consensus reached on the explanations provided. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of the forces and torques involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions about linear momentum, torque, and the behavior of the wheel under different conditions, but these assumptions are not fully explored or agreed upon.

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The experiment of a quickly rolling wheel on a string is well known.



How is this behavior explained in terms of the molecules of an atom? That is to say, why don't the individual atoms of the wheel fall down?
 
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It is because the atoms are mouseketeers and they took an all for one. and one for all vow to get into to wheel fraternity. Actually the spinning parts of the wheel only have linear momentum, linear momentum at the bottom half is canceled by linear momentum in the top half. The string on the axel of the wheel ties the wheel to a fixed point, if the wheel was to rotate down that would change the linear momentum, but since the linear momentum is conserved, it causes the torques that the professor explained better than I can.
 
One way to look at the situation is to note that velocity change is the result of an acceleration applied over some period of time. In the case of a wheel in a precessing mode due to wheel rotation and external torque, the velocity change component perpendicular to the plane of rotation of a point on the wheel lags the change in acceleration component perpendicular to the plane of rotation by about 90° as the wheel rotates and precesses.

The end result is that the reaction of a spinning wheel to an external torque will be a precession about 90° "after" the torque. This effect applies to a single rotor helicopter, so the "cylic", which controls roll and pitch rotation, is advanced by 90° from the pilot input to compensate, and the helicopers roll and pitch responses are precession like reactions to torque inputs from the rotor blades.

The reason while the wheel doesn't fall down is that the torque due to gravity and the line holding the wheel up is opposed by an equal and opposing torque if the wheel is precessing at a constant and "proper" rate. The other situation is that the free axis end of the wheel will oscillate up and down as the rate of precession increases and decreases.

The other interesting bit here is that the center of mass of the wheel will tend to stay on the same horizontal plane moving the free axis up or down depending on the movement of the supporting line and how far off from vertical the supporting line is at any moment (the ideal situaion would be a massless supporting line). Look at video #9 on this web page for an example of this:

http://www.gyroscopes.org/1974lecture.asp

Video #18 on that same web page has small masses located at the ends of the spokes that demonstrate the explanation I gave above, but in the video the effect is noted but not explained.

how does angular momentum create a perpendicular force?
It doesn't create a force, the precession creates a torque that opposes the torque due to the supporting line and gravitly, so that the wheel doesn't rotate "downwards", and the vertical component of tension in the line is what opposes gravity.
 
Last edited:
This might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUgwaKebHTs
 

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