How Does Piston Movement Affect Pressure in a Closed System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between piston movement and pressure changes in a closed system containing air. Participants explore the relevant formulas and assumptions regarding temperature effects during the compression cycle, focusing on theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the formulas to calculate new pressure when the piston reaches top dead center, questioning the relevance of temperature changes during the cycle.
  • Another participant suggests using the equation P1V1=P2V2 to relate initial and final pressures and volumes, agreeing that temperature changes are negligible.
  • A different participant reiterates the use of the same equation but introduces the concept of adiabatic compression, noting that air heats up during compression and referencing the relationship T·Vγ-1 = constant.
  • Some participants acknowledge that while temperature changes occur, they may not be significant enough to impact the calculations without specific volume data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the use of the P1V1=P2V2 equation, but there is disagreement regarding the significance of temperature changes during the compression process. Some argue that temperature is negligible, while others highlight its relevance in the context of adiabatic processes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion lacks specific details about the relative volumes of the piston positions, which may affect the assessment of temperature changes and their relevance to pressure calculations.

BuddyJim
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Hi,

I have a closed system of fixed volume with an piston pump attached. The medium is air and the initial environmental condition are at standard atmospheric. I would like to know the formulas to use that would provide me with the new pressure when the piston is at top dead center (i.e. traveled a full stroke). Would I be correct in assuming that temperature is negligible when no heat (or fuel) is supplied to the system during the cycle?

Thanks
 
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If you know the initial volume and pressure, you would use P1V1=P2V2, where P1 and V1 are the initial pressure and volume and the other side of the equation is the pressure and volume after the piston has moved.

I would also say that temperature is negligible. It would change slightly, but it's not relevant because it's a result of the pressure change.
 
aroc91 said:
If you know the initial volume and pressure, you would use P1V1=P2V2, where P1 and V1 are the initial pressure and volume and the other side of the equation is the pressure and volume after the piston has moved.

I would also say that temperature is negligible. It would change slightly, but it's not relevant because it's a result of the pressure change.
Actually, air heats up as it is compressed, like in a diesel engine. Specifically for adiabatic compression, T·V γ-1 = constant, where γ = 7/5 for air. There is a similar relation for the pressure increase. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process
 
Bob S said:
Actually, air heats up as it is compressed, like in a diesel engine. Specifically for adiabatic compression, T·V γ-1 = constant, where γ = 7/5 for air. There is a similar relation for the pressure increase. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process


I know. I just meant that, from the description of the problem, temperature wasn't relevant, not that didn't occur.
 
aroc91 said:
If you know the initial volume and pressure, you would use P1V1=P2V2, where P1 and V1 are the initial pressure and volume and the other side of the equation is the pressure and volume after the piston has moved.

I would also say that temperature is negligible. It would change slightly, but it's not relevant because it's a result of the pressure change.

We can't say whether the temperature change is 'slight' unless we know the relative volumes between piston down and piston up, which the OP failed to mention.
 

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