How Does Relativistic Doppler Effect Impact Perception in Space Travel?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relativistic Doppler effect and its implications for perception during space travel, particularly regarding how observers perceive the length of moving objects and the visual effects associated with high-speed motion. It explores theoretical aspects of relativity, including length contraction and visual distortion, as well as the relationship between visual perception and measurements in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that an outside observer will perceive a spaceship as shorter, but the visual perception of surroundings may differ, leading to questions about whether those surroundings appear longer.
  • Others argue that the perception of length contraction is not directly observable and is instead a result of coordinate systems and measurements made in one's own rest frame.
  • A participant explains that visual perception is influenced by the time it takes for light from different parts of an object to reach an observer, and that the Penrose-Terrell effect complicates the relationship between visual appearance and measured length.
  • It is noted that the visual effects of distortion are symmetric; both the observer and the moving individual will experience similar distortions, although the exact nature of these distortions is complex and not fully worked out.
  • One participant references Terrell's work, which discusses how moving objects appear contracted or elongated based on their motion relative to the observer, and raises a question about whether there is an analogous effect for time dilation.
  • Another participant suggests that the relativistic Doppler effect serves as an analogy for time dilation, indicating that a clock moving towards an observer appears sped up, while one moving away appears slowed down.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of visual perception and measurement in relativity, with no consensus reached on the specifics of how these effects manifest or their implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of visual distortion effects and the dependence on definitions and frames of reference, but do not resolve the mathematical or conceptual uncertainties involved.

sodaMay
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An outside observer will perceive my spaceship as being shorter, but what will i see of my outside surroundings? Will they be longer?
 
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sodaMay said:
An outside observer will perceive my spaceship as being shorter, but what will i see of my outside surroundings? Will they be longer?
Depends what you mean by perceive. He certainly will not actually see it shorter. Only when he draws a choordinate chart he will conclude it is shorter.

Roger Penrose and James Terrell are the folks who thought a bit deeper about length contraction than others who just parrot the dogma that it is directly observable. :smile:
 


sodaMay said:
An outside observer will perceive my spaceship as being shorter, but what will i see of my outside surroundings? Will they be longer?
In relativity there's a difference between what you see visually and what you measure in your own rest frame. What you see is affected by the fact that light from different events (or different parts of a single object) takes different amounts of time to reach you; the coordinates you assign to events are based on compensating for such delays, the usual method being for each observer to use a network of rulers and synchronized clocks at rest relative to himself, and defining the coordinates of events purely in terms of local measurements on this system (for example, if I see an explosion happen next to the 12-meter mark on my x-axis ruler, and the clock sitting on that mark reads 5 seconds at the moment the explosion happens next to it, then I assign that event coordinates x=12 meters, t=5 seconds in my frame).

When people talk about length contraction, they are talking about what's measured in your frame, not what you see visually (the visual size is influenced by something called the Penrose-Terrell effect which MeJennifer mentioned). But as far as how length contracts in different frames, the effect is completely symmetrical--if you are moving at 0.95c relative to an observer on a space station, then in the station's frame your ship's length will appear shrunk, but in your frame the ship's length will be normal and the length the station will be shrunk, by exactly the same factor (keep in mind that in your frame, your ship is at rest while it is the station that is moving at 0.95c away from you, and in relativity there is no objective physical truth about how fast any object is 'really' moving, all speeds are relative to your frame of reference).
 


sodaMay said:
An outside observer will perceive my spaceship as being shorter, but what will i see of my outside surroundings? Will they be longer?
The visual effects are symmetric. The 'distortion' seen by the outside observer as he looks at your spaceship will be the same as the 'distortion' seen by you as you look outside.

As to precisely what the distortion is, is complicated; I haven't worked it out myself. There will surely be some shortening involved, but I've heard that, visually, the distortion looks more like a rotation.
 


Wikipedia has a decent description, in part :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_rotation

Terrell's paper pointed out that although special relativity appeared to describe an "observed contraction" in moving objects, these interpreted "observations" were not to be confused with the theory's literal predictions for the visible appearance of a moving object. Thanks to the differential timelag effects in signals reaching the observer from the object's different parts, a receding object would appear contracted, an approaching object would appear elongated (even under special relativity) and the geometry of a passing object would appear skewed.

I had forgotton reading about this for the first time about a month or so ago and never got to post the obvious question: Is there an analogous effect for time dilation? Why?
 


Naty1 said:
I had forgotton reading about this for the first time about a month or so ago and never got to post the obvious question: Is there an analogous effect for time dilation? Why?
I'd say the relativistic Doppler effect is the closest analogy; because of this effect, a clock moving towards you will visually appear sped up rather than slowed down, and a clock moving away from you will visually appear slowed down by a factor greater than the time dilation factor.
 

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