How does stuttering affect social interactions?

[ShawnD]

After taking Paxil, booze hits me incredibly hard. Right now I'm only 1/3 of the way through my nightly margarita, but I'm just totally out of it. I would probably pass out if I finished my drink.

How are paxil and alcohol related? Do they directly react with each other, or indirectly?

 

[honestrosewater]

After taking Paxil, booze hits me incredibly hard.

I just got an image of you taking your pills and bottles of booze flying across the room and knocking you upside the head repeatedly. Thought you might appreciate that.

 

[hitssquad]

Check the side of the bottle. It should have a sticker that says something like this: "Use alcohol cautiously. Alcohol may increase drowsiness or dizziness while taking Paxil."

As to why, I'm not sure since Paxil is an SSRI (the second "S" stands for serotonin) and that would not seem to have much to do with alcohol. Perhaps Paxil also affects alcohol metabolism.

BTW Rose, Paxil is sometimes prescribed for OCD subjects (which would be a typical application of an SSRI).

 

[honestrosewater]

BTW Rose, Paxil is sometimes prescribed for OCD subjects (which would be a typical application of an SSRI).

Yeah, everything I've read mentions SSRIs almost exclusively, I just didn't bother to learn much about them until now. If their name is any indication, I have a good idea of what they do.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Paxil, Paxil CR and paroxetine hcl for Depression
Address:http://www.add-adhd-help-center.com/Depression/paxil.htm

Use cautiously with alcohol. May increase dizzyness and drowsiness.

This drug also has a really wondrous list of possible side effect that are not alcohol related.

 

[Moonbear]

After taking Paxil, booze hits me incredibly hard. Right now I'm only 1/3 of the way through my nightly margarita, but I'm just totally out of it. I would probably pass out if I finished my drink.

How are paxil and alcohol related? Do they directly react with each other, or indirectly?

I don't know how paroxetine and alcohol interact, as I can't find any studies on it with some quick searching. But there are some studies about paroxetine reducing alcohol consumption in alcoholics, but they don't seem to ask if that's because of a decreased alcohol craving or because they experience the same effects with less alcohol.

I'd be more concerned that 1) you have a nightly margarita, and 2) you're combining alcohol with prescription drugs even knowing they have some sort of interaction and that the label advises against the combination.

 

[zoobyshoe]

They prescribe Paxil to the people they suspect know a little Latin. To those who don't, they prescribe Wellbutrin.

 

[ShawnD]

This drug also has a really wondrous list of possible side effect that are not alcohol related.

You don't know the half of it. I've only tried these damn things for about 3 days and so far here's what I've experienced:
-My body is numb. It's that same feeling as when you eat marijuana instead of smoking it.
-Completely distorted reality. Everything seems like a dream almost.
-Out of body experiences. It's almost as if I'm watching myself do things rather than doing them.
-Weird insomnia. I'll go to bed absolutely dead-tired but I'll wake up 2 hours later feeling rested, then I'll get very tired throughout the day because being awake for 22 hours is much harder than being awake for the regular 16.
-Lack of wit. I'm taking these drugs to overcome social anxiety yet they seem to do the opposite. I asked the doctor for something that will have effects similar to alcohol (talk faster, stop studdering, talk endlessly about anything, not be scared to approach people, general mental freedom, etc) but so far I've seen the exact opposite. When people talk to me, it's almost as if I don't need to listen because they seem so distant; it's similar to listening to a radio playing in the background. It's hard to be witty when I don't feel that I'm actually part of a conversation at any given time.

I'll keep taking these for a few more weeks to see what happens (they're supposed to kick in after 2 weeks). Hopefully they'll do something productive. In the mean time I'll have to drink smaller margaritas.

 

[Evo]

You don't know the half of it. I've only tried these damn things for about 3 days and so far here's what I've experienced:

I'd notify the doctor of your symptoms, you shouldn't be having those kinds of side effects, even with the alcohol. It could be that whatever is bothering you is not what Paxil is needed for. Your doctor is only guessing that an SSRI is what you need.

Are you taking any other drugs besides alcohol?

 

[ShawnD]

Are you taking any other drugs besides alcohol?

Nope. Paxil is trippy enough as it is

I'll be sure to talk to a doctor. Hopefully it's just part of a warm up period, which wouldn't be too different from most drugs. Wearing a nicotine patch as a non-smoker or having too much tea can mess you up pretty bad as well. Anybody remember my tea contains drugs thread?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'll be sure to talk to a doctor. Hopefully it's just part of a warm up period...

No, it isn't supposed to be hitting you like this. It's not the right med for you at all. Don't take any more, and call the doctor as soon as you can.

 

[rachmaninoff]

No, it isn't supposed to be hitting you like this. It's not the right med for you at all. Don't take any more, and call the doctor as soon as you can.

NO! Don't suddenly stop taking it - you need a gradual withdrawal, or there could be other serious side-effects. Call your doctor before stopping.

 

[zoobyshoe]

NO! Don't suddenly stop taking it - you need a gradual withdrawal, or there could be other serious side-effects.

He's only been taking them three days. This isn't enough time for his brain to have gotten used to them such that any "withdrawal" effects would come into play. That only happens with some people who have been on it a long time.

 

[ShawnD]

Now that I'm no longer taking these, what should I do with the pills? I was thinking give one to each of my friends and give the rest to whichever friend(s) enjoy the buzz. Either that or just give all of them to one friend who happens to be a meth user. In any case, I'm not just throwing them away.

 

[Moonbear]

Now that I'm no longer taking these, what should I do with the pills? I was thinking give one to each of my friends and give the rest to whichever friend(s) enjoy the buzz. Either that or just give all of them to one friend who happens to be a meth user. In any case, I'm not just throwing them away.

Once you've confirmed with your doctor that they are the wrong medication for you, take them back to the pharmacy and ask the pharmacist to properly dispose of them, or bring them with you to the doctor's visit and give them to him/her to dispose of. Why on Earth would you give them out to your friends knowing all the nasty side-effects they have?! I'll be blunt on this one...doing anything other than disposing of them is pure idiocy!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Now that I'm no longer taking these, what should I do with the pills?

Call your doctor and tell him what happened.

Don't give any pills to anyone. Do what Moonbear said or flush them.

 

[Evo]

Now that I'm no longer taking these, what should I do with the pills? I was thinking give one to each of my friends and give the rest to whichever friend(s) enjoy the buzz. Either that or just give all of them to one friend who happens to be a meth user. In any case, I'm not just throwing them away.

Shawn, did your doctor tell you to stop taking them? Don't give them to anyone. They may not have any effect on another person or they could cause a serious problem. "Dangerous and even fatal reactions are possible when Paxil is combined with thioridazine (Mellaril) or drugs classified as monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors, such as the antidepressants Nardil and Parnate." You never know what other drugs your friends might have gotten their hands on.

 

[Moonbear]

Call your doctor and tell him what happened.

Don't give any pills to anyone. Do what Moonbear said or flush them.

I prefer not flushing them...we don't need to keep adding pharmaceuticals to the water...not that I can be sure that isn't what the pharmacist will do anyway, but I can hope it ends up disposed of in a more environmentally friendly way.

 

[arildno]

Now that I'm no longer taking these, what should I do with the pills? I was thinking give one to each of my friends and give the rest to whichever friend(s) enjoy the buzz. Either that or just give all of them to one friend who happens to be a meth user. In any case, I'm not just throwing them away.

Why do you want to possibly kill off your friend?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I prefer not flushing them...we don't need to keep adding pharmaceuticals to the water...not that I can be sure that isn't what the pharmacist will do anyway, but I can hope it ends up disposed of in a more environmentally friendly way.

Good point, Moonbear.

Maybe hitsquad or someone can find out what is actually done by pharmacists and pharmaceutical companies without of date meducations. We have to hope it isn't all just flushed into the water.

 

[ShawnD]

Shawn, did your doctor tell you to stop taking them?

I told my mom about this and she talked to the doctor at her workplace. He said I was right to stop taking the pills, and I should have started with a dosage of 5mg. The pills my doctor prescribed are 20mg, so it's like taking 4 pills at once. No wonder they're messing with my mind!

 

[Evo]

I told my mom about this and she talked to the doctor at her workplace. He said I was right to stop taking the pills, and I should have started with a dosage of 5mg. The pills my doctor prescribed are 20mg, so it's like taking 4 pills at once. No wonder they're messing with my mind!

Good grief! I'd go to a different doctor.

 

[zoobyshoe]

paxil starting dosage - Google Search
Address:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=paxil+starting+dosage&btnG=Google+Search

Google say 20 mgs is the usual starting dose for all applications. Some say 10, though.

I think it's clear that selective serotonin reuptake inhibition is not what your brain needs. This is how psychiatrists prescribe: trial and error.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'm taking these drugs to overcome social anxiety yet they seem to do the opposite. I asked the doctor for something that will have effects similar to alcohol (talk faster, stop studdering, talk endlessly about anything, not be scared to approach people, general mental freedom, etc) but so far I've seen the exact opposite.

I noticed the mention of stuttering and wondered about it. I found this research paper, done by a student, but for that its as good as any well informed post that might be offered by someone at PF:

The Neurological Causes of Stuttering
Address:http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web2/Walker.html

From the things said in this paper, it is reasonable to wonder if you actually have a "psychiatric" social anxiety at all. Her research suggests you are wired differently for language than most people, having more right brain involvement in it than is usual, and that, when this leads to stuttering, there is an overcompensation mechanism that kicks in: your brain urges you to try harder, which just makes it worse, like a Chinese finger puzzle.

The reason alcohol may be alieviating these sympotoms is because it dos the opposite: relaxes you, and prevents you from "trying harder".

 

[arildno]

Glad you brought up that article, zoobyshoe!
Yet again, it seems like the psychiatrists are wrong with their facile, contemptuous "diagnoses" of unusual behaviour/body responses.

For years, psychiatrists had fooled themselves and the public into believing that ulcers had a psychosomatic origin in stress; and then it was shown that abdominal ulcers are simply the result of a bacterial infection.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Thanks, but as I mentioned that is a student research paper, not a medical study, and all the studies used to support her case should be looked into, rather than assuming she has accurately characterized any of them. I posted it as a "lead", only, not a solution.

Never-the-less, your point about psychiatry stands. Psychiatrists are completely unable to distinguish what symptoms are psychological from which are physical, and are much too eager to assume psychological causes for the problems of anyone who walks through the door.

 

[arildno]

Thanks, but as I mentioned that is a student research paper, not a medical study, and all the studies used to support her case should be looked into, rather than assuming she has accurately characterized any of them. I posted it as a "lead", only, not a solution.

Never-the-less, your point about psychiatry stands. Psychiatrists are completely unable to distinguish what symptoms are psychological from which are physical, and are much too eager to assume psychological causes for the problems of anyone who walks through the door.

Leads are important; although I agree that I have a certain eagerness to favour explanations going against the facile "psychological" explanations produced by the psychiatrists.


One of the worst cases I know of in this respect, is that late 19th century psychiatrists (alienists) said that to be born out of wedlock was inherently damaging for a child, and lo! no wonder that so many of them ended up as criminals.
That the fierce disapproval and contempt bastards (in its original sense) was exposed to might have had an influence was dismissed; rather, these psychiatrists basically said it was right and proper to act contemptuously towards children born outside marriage..


EDIT:
In this case, there is of course another PSYCHOLOGICAL explanation I favour, it is, however, rather indicative that psychiatrists tend to offer explanations supportive of establishment values and attitudes. That's when we should be really skeptical to what they are actually saying..

 

[hitssquad]

I told my mom about this and she talked to the doctor at her workplace. He said I was right to stop taking the pills, and I should have started with a dosage of 5mg. The pills my doctor prescribed are 20mg, so it's like taking 4 pills at once. No wonder they're messing with my mind!

It can be cheaper to buy large-dose pills, though, and cut them up. You can buy a pill-cutting device made just for this purpose.
images.google.com/images?q=pill%20cutter&num=20&

http://www.bluffcitywholesale.com/images/pillbox/67168.jpg

One caviat, though, is that pills are specified to exceed a certain threshold of reliability of dosage. Standard variance might be, say, +/- 5% among whole pills but a whole lot higher in halves or quarters of pills.

 

[hitssquad]

A big fuzzy ball of psychic fiberglass

I asked the doctor for something that will have effects similar to alcohol (talk faster, stop studdering, talk endlessly about anything, not be scared to approach people, general mental freedom, etc) but so far I've seen the exact opposite.

Researchers are getting away from serotonin chemicals for social anxiety and moving toward noradrenaline chemicals. I tried Reboxetine (I have avoidant personality disorder which is severe social phobia) and it was great. The side-effects are sympthetic-nervous-system related, though, which means you will probably experience premature ejaculation (worse than it sounds, though it is also something many people learn to live with) and urinary hesitancy. At a partial dosage, the side-effects are lessened, of course. I am experienced with taking partial doses of Reboxitine long-term and combining that with a broad dietary-supplementation regimen (i.e., a "cocktail" strategy) some of which also has effects on noradrenaline metabolism.

Reboxetine can be mail-ordered without a prescription from here (this is where I buy it from):
http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-order-Intro.htm#Reboxetine

If you are using alcohol for your anxiety, you need to stop immediately. You have numerous posts on Physics Forums going back a long time indirectly indicating that you suffer from alcohol dependency. All alcohol containers in your house need to be poured down the kitchen drain as soon as you read this message. If you can't do that, you need to seek professional help. When seeking professional help, specifically mention avoidant personality disorder and anxiety-related alcohol dependency.

Social phobics and avoidant-personality-disordereds typically become dependent upon alcohol for anxiety reduction. See:
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/avoid.htm
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/avpdtable.htm

Dual Diagnosis Treatment: These individuals are vulnerable to substance use that reduces interpersonal vulnerability or eases social paralysis. Drugs or alcohol may give AvPDs a sense of efficacy; when using, AvPDs believe they can spend time with people; they can be attractive and effective interpersonally. So, if there is chemical relief from disconnection with others, treatment will hardly be an attractive alternative.

Addiction for AvPDs provides escape and avoidance of painful feelings or situations. Modulation of hyperarousal and of self-deprecatory thoughts is a prominent function of AvPD addiction (Richards).
[...]
Confrontation usual to substance abuse treatment may defeat these individuals and overwhelm their defenses. Humiliation cannot be tolerated. Confrontation should be modified and more supportive than needed for individuals with more self-confidence.

Abstinence should not be a prerequisite to treatment. AvPDs believe they can do very little. They are inclined to give up. Abstinence as a goal can allow service providers to bolster AvPDs' self-confidence through manageable treatment objectives.

Reboxetine is good enough (search PubMed for Reboxetine anxiety) that I think you could be confidant that it would fully provide the anti-anxiety effects you currently use alcohol for.

I have tried serotonin boosting/reuptake chemicals and I have noticed the same phenomenon that you described, by the way. I described it as insulation, meaning it was like there was a big fuzzy ball of psychic fiberglass surrounding me and protecting me from the opinions of others.

 

[Moonbear]

It can be cheaper to buy large pills, though, and cut them up. You can buy a pill-cutting device made just for this purpose.
images.google.com/images?q=pill%20cutter&num=20&

http://www.bluffcitywholesale.com/images/pillbox/67168.jpg

One caviat, though, is that pills are specified to exceed a certain threshold of reliability of dosage. Standard variance might be, say, +/- 5% among whole pills but a whole lot higher in halves or quarters of pills.

Ask your doctor or pharmacist before you do this. It is perfectly safe for some pills, but for others, can either lead to too variable of doses for something that needs to be very consistently dosed, or can render time-release properties ineffective. For pills that can be safely split and are prescribed that way, some pharmacists will even split them for you, though I don't know how commonly that is done.

 

[Moonbear]

Glad you brought up that article, zoobyshoe!
Yet again, it seems like the psychiatrists are wrong with their facile, contemptuous "diagnoses" of unusual behaviour/body responses.

For years, psychiatrists had fooled themselves and the public into believing that ulcers had a psychosomatic origin in stress; and then it was shown that abdominal ulcers are simply the result of a bacterial infection.

Keep in mind that he didn't say it was prescribed by a psychiatrist. One problem is that too often, general practitioners/family practitioners, who have very little psychiatry training, are prescribing these drugs while guessing about what they are treating based on a handful of symptoms described by their patients who have diagnosed themselves based on commercials rather than a thorough psychiatric evaluation.

However, if stuttering is one of the symtoms, he should probably be evaluated by a neurologist, not just a psychiatrist. This may not be a social anxiety disorder at all, but just stuttering and self-consciousness directly resulting from the stuttering. Stuttering does seem to worsen when someone is nervous, but it might not be any more nervousness than the average person experiences, just that it's more outwardly apparent.

 

[arildno]

Well, I'm a bit skeptical to the whole theory of stuttering as the result of social anxiety.

I don't have much evidence for that, of course, but speaking for myself (I'm not a stutterer), my voice tends to falter (and peter out) if I get an overwhelming sense of anxiety, whereas the repeating symptoms connected to stuttering can on occasion surface when I am bubbling with excitement.

thus, from personal experience (which is nothing but anecdotal evidence), I don't find stuttering connected to the mental state of anxiety.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, I'm a bit skeptical to the whole theory of stuttering as the result of social anxiety.

I don't have much evidence for that, of course, but speaking for myself (I'm not a stutterer), my voice tends to falter (and peter out) if I get an overwhelming sense of anxiety, whereas the repeating symptoms connected to stuttering can on occasion surface when I am bubbling with excitement.

thus, from personal experience (which is nothing but anecdotal evidence), I don't find stuttering connected to the mental state of anxiety.

No, someone who does not already have a problem with stuttering is not going to start just because they're nervous. They might suddenly have trouble thinking of words or stumble over words, but it wouldn't be stuttering. However, if someone is a stutterer, which is a neurological problem not a psychological one, it can get worse when someone is nervous.

I know someone who has a pretty severe stutter, and noticed that as she gets to know a group of people really well and becomes more comfortable with them (those who are patient with her stutter), her stutter becomes less severe. She may only get stuck on one or two letters. On the other hand, she got up to ask a question at a conference (she's now a post-doc) and she seemed to get stuck on every single consonant sound. It's normal for students or post-docs to feel nervous getting up and asking questions at a conference, so this is not any sort of symptom of social anxiety (and she's actually a very social person), just that when she's more nervous, in a situation in which it's appropriate to be more nervous, the stutter worsens.

So, yes, I would agree with you that if the diagnosis was made on the basis of something like stuttering, then I'd really be suspicious of social anxiety disorder as the diagnosis, not to mention that ShawnD is telling us about the many friends he has, which also makes it hard to believe he has social anxiety disorder. Someone with that disorder would have a lot of trouble getting out and even meeting people let alone having friends.

 

[arildno]

I agree; I have the same experience with people with a stuttering problem that they tend to stutter less when relaxed.

However, I've also noted that some of them are rather reserved until they understand that the other is an intelligent person who won't dismiss them due to their stutter, or even worse, constantly tries to finish off the sentences for the stutterer.
But, I find this initial reservation an eminently rational attitude, and you'll find much the same attitude among people with other types of physical handicaps:
They have experienced more jerky attitudes towards themselves due to their handicap than us "normal" folk; why should they bother to give more of themselves unless the other shows he's worth it?