How Does the Magneto Caloric Effect Alter Internal Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the magnetocaloric effect and its implications for internal energy in substances when subjected to external magnetic fields. Participants explore the relationship between magnetic fields, internal energy, and entropy, as well as the effects of gravitational fields on internal energy, with a focus on theoretical and conceptual understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in the magnetocaloric effect, an increase in temperature occurs while internal energy remains constant, suggesting a decrease in internal potential energy, but questions how external magnetic fields can influence internal energy.
  • Another participant argues that gravitational fields can affect internal energy, providing an example of water vapor condensing under strong gravitational fields, which releases heat and resembles the magnetocaloric effect.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether all force fields can affect the distribution of internal energy between potential and kinetic forms, questioning if the application of magnetic or electric fields changes the total internal energy of a substance.
  • Concerns are raised about the physical significance of entropy in relation to magnetic fields, with a participant referencing a research paper that discusses magnetic entropy and its state function nature, questioning how it relates to internal energy changes during magnetization.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while entropy is a state function, it can depend on external fields like magnetic fields, and discusses how magnetizing a paramagnetic material aligns dipoles, leading to energy release and increased lattice temperature.
  • One participant expresses confusion about previous discussions on gravitational fields affecting internal energy, referencing external sources that suggest systematic motion does not change internal energy.
  • Several participants request recommendations for literature that rigorously explains the magnetocaloric effect to aid in their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of external fields on internal energy, particularly regarding gravitational and magnetic fields. There is no consensus on whether all force fields can affect internal energy or how they interact with potential and kinetic energy distributions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions and conditions regarding the effects of external fields on internal energy, including the nature of state functions like entropy and the specific conditions under which these effects may be observable. Some mathematical and conceptual steps remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in thermodynamics, magnetism, and the interplay between external fields and internal energy in physical systems may find this discussion relevant.

gursimran
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In magneto caloric effect, we see that when a substance in an adiabetic closure is exposed to external magnetic field, its temperature increases. But the internal energy of the substance has to be constant so this implies decrease in internal potential energy. However the application of magnetic field can only directly change the external potential energy of the substance as a whole. How it can affect the internal energy of the substance??

For example like gravitational field can't effect the internal energy of the substance..
 
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Even the gravitational field can affect the internal energy of a sample although the gravitational field of Earth is quite weak to make this effect observable: Think about an container of fixed volume containing water vapour just above its condensation temperature. If you bring this container at in a strong gravitational field while keeping its temperature constant, it will be energetically more favorable for water to condense and collect as a liquid at the bottom of the container where its potential energy is lower. In that process, heat will be released, just like in the magnetocaloric effect.
 


DrDu said:
Even the gravitational field can affect the internal energy of a sample although the gravitational field of Earth is quite weak to make this effect observable: Think about an container of fixed volume containing water vapour just above its condensation temperature. If you bring this container at in a strong gravitational field while keeping its temperature constant, it will be energetically more favorable for water to condense and collect as a liquid at the bottom of the container where its potential energy is
lower. In that process, heat will be released, just like in the magnetocaloric effect.

Thanks for answer but I'm having a hard time understanding this all..

So can I generalize that all force fields can effect the internal energy of the substance (it can affect the amount in which it is distributed in potential and kinetic energy) but it in itself does not contribute to internal energy. eg - if I turn on the magnetic field/ electric does the internal energy(KE+PE) of the substance changes in amount??

Secondly, how does it effect. If applying the magnetic field alligns all the dipoles in the dierction of magnetic field. How that effect the internal energy distribution of the gas. Please justify.

Thanks in advance. ...
 
What is the physical significance of the entropy linked to magnetic field.

I was reading a research paper on magetocalorific effect. It says magnetic component of entropy but entropy being a state function should not get affected by the external fields. Just like it does not get affected by gravitational and electric field. Also can't magneto calorific effect be explained in terms of internal energy changes. For example if we adiabetically magnetise a material the temperature should rise. It means thermal agitation has increased and because dq=0 so KE should have converted to internal potentail energy. But how is internal potentail energy affected by the application of magnetic field?

Is there a good book which explains the basic theory of magnetocaloric effect with rigor?
 


Why do you open a new thread? You asked essentially the same question before. I also showed you that a gravitational field can produce the same effects as a magnetic field.
So why do you say it doesn't?
Entropy is a state function, but the state depends on the magnetic field just like it depends on e.g. volume. When you magnetize e.g. a paramagnetic material, you create a preferred orientation for the magnetic dipoles. When the dipoles relax into these orientation, their entropy decreases, the heat capacity of the dipoles decreases, and they release energy which is taken up by the lattice vibration and the lattice temperature increases. This effect may be strongly enhanced near a ferromagnetic phase transition were you observe the giant magnetocaloric effect.
 


DrDu said:
Why do you open a new thread? You asked essentially the same question before. I also showed you that a gravitational field can produce the same effects as a magnetic field.
So why do you say it doesn't?
Entropy is a state function, but the state depends on the magnetic field just like it depends on e.g. volume. When you magnetize e.g. a paramagnetic material, you create a preferred orientation for the magnetic dipoles. When the dipoles relax into these orientation, their entropy decreases, the heat capacity of the dipoles decreases, and they release energy which is taken up by the lattice vibration and the lattice temperature increases. This effect may be strongly enhanced near a ferromagnetic phase transition were you observe the giant magnetocaloric effect.

oh I apologize for that. Ya you won't believe but its true that I almost forget that I had already asked this question before. Still I don't remember what were the replies. Thanks anyway for replying. Could you suggest me some books on this to get out of this dilemma or confusion..
 


gursimran said:
Thanks for answer but I'm having a hard time understanding this all..

So can I generalize that all force fields can effect the internal energy of the substance (it can affect the amount in which it is distributed in potential and kinetic energy) but it in itself does not contribute to internal energy. eg - if I turn on the magnetic field/ electric does the internal energy(KE+PE) of the substance changes in amount??

Secondly, how does it effect. If applying the magnetic field alligns all the dipoles in the dierction of magnetic field. How that effect the internal energy distribution of the gas. Please justify.

Thanks in advance. ...

oh here it is. I was not convinced. If you say that external gravitational field can affect the internal energy. Then so can psuedo gravitational field due to gas in a accerlating frame. But I have read it essentially many times that systematic motion of a gas as a whole can't change the internal energy of a gas. You can see that in wikipedia as well.

You can read this " It is the energy needed to create the system, but excludes the energy to displace the system's surroundings, any energy associated with a move as a whole, or due to external force fields." Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_energy
 


Two different threads have been merged.

Zz.
 

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