How does the velocity of air molecules affect EM waves?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the velocity of air molecules and the behavior of electromagnetic (EM) waves, particularly in the context of light passing through the Earth's atmosphere. Participants explore various factors such as refraction, diffraction, and the effects of wind on phenomena like the twinkling of stars, while intentionally setting aside the influences of pressure and temperature variations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the velocity of air molecules (O2, N2, CO2, and H2O) does not significantly affect EM waves unless relativistic speeds are involved, focusing instead on refractive effects.
  • There is a discussion about the impact of wind and atmospheric conditions on the twinkling of stars, with some participants questioning the role of diffraction in this context.
  • One participant notes that diffraction would require blocking or reflecting of starlight, which they argue is not applicable to the mentioned air molecules at standard temperature and pressure (STP).
  • Another participant raises the question of whether high-frequency EM waves, such as gamma and X-rays, would experience significant diffraction due to air molecules.
  • It is mentioned that while visible light is affected by atmospheric conditions, ultraviolet light experiences minimal effects, and X-rays do not undergo significant diffraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree that refractive effects are significant in the context of light passing through the atmosphere, but there is disagreement regarding the role of diffraction and the effects of different types of EM waves. The discussion remains unresolved on the specifics of how wind and molecular velocity interact with these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the relationship between temperature, density, and molecular velocity, indicating that assumptions about these factors may influence their arguments. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or physical implications of these relationships.

Monsterboy
Messages
305
Reaction score
96
I would like to know how exactly or if the velocity of air molecules affect the light i.e electromagnetic waves passing through it. Ignoring the effect of pressure and/or temperature differences in the air which might also affect the light (due to changes in refractive index).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
If by "air molecules", you mean O2, N2, CO2 and gaseous H2O, not very much.
Assuming we are talking about the Earth's atmosphere:
Unless we are talking about relativistic velocities, absorption will not be change with velocity.
If any of those materials were able to reflect the EM, the EM would never make it through them. So all you have left is the refractive effects.

Although, it would be good to know which EM you are talking about.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Monsterboy
.Scott said:
If by "air molecules", you mean O2, N2, CO2 and gaseous H2O, not very much.
Assuming we are talking about the Earth's atmosphere:
Unless we are talking about relativistic velocities, absorption will not be change with velocity.
If any of those materials were able to reflect the EM, the EM would never make it through them. So all you have left is the refractive effects.
Although, it would be good to know which EM you are talking about.

I actually want to know the effect of wind on twinkling of stars, mostly in the visible spectrum. It's not just about absorption, how about diffraction etc ?
 
It's mostly about refractive effects.
Diffraction would require some blocking or reflecting of the star light. O2, N2, CO2, and gaseous H2O (at STP) won't do that.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Monsterboy and berkeman
http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/ask/210-Why-do-the-stars-twinkle-
The stars twinkle in the night sky because of the effects of our atmosphere. When starlight enters our atmosphere it is affected by winds in the atmosphere and by areas with different temperatures and densities.

Perhaps I should change the title of this thread to "How does the wind contribute to twinkling of stars ?"
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Monsterboy said:
I actually want to know the effect of wind on twinkling of stars, mostly in the visible spectrum. It's not just about absorption, how about diffraction etc ?
That effect is due to refractive index which is affected by density. But I guess you can say that warm air expands and is less dense so there is an implied relationship, in practice, between temperature and particle velocity because of the gas laws. Temperature relates to average molecular speed.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Monsterboy
.Scott said:
It's mostly about refractive effects.
Diffraction would require some blocking or reflecting of the star light. O2, N2, CO2, and gaseous H2O (at STP) won't do that.
What if we consider high frequency EM waves like gamma and X rays will they undergo significant diffraction due to these molecules ?
 
Monsterboy said:
What if we consider high frequency EM waves like gamma and X rays will they undergo significant diffraction due to these molecules ?
They get more than just diffracted. The following graphic shows atmospheric absorption across the EM spectrum.
Visible: Yes. Ultraviolet: A little. X-ray: No.
transmissionwindow2.gif
 

Attachments

  • transmissionwindow2.gif
    transmissionwindow2.gif
    14.1 KB · Views: 633
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Monsterboy and Delta2

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K