How electrons and protons and atoms make a whole object

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle (HUP) on the behavior of subatomic particles, specifically electrons and protons, and how these particles collectively form macroscopic objects like humans and other materials. The conversation explores theoretical and conceptual aspects of quantum mechanics and its relation to the physical properties of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle indicates that the position and velocity of particles cannot be predicted simultaneously, emphasizing the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics.
  • Others clarify that the uncertainty principle suggests that these quantities do not exist exactly at the same time, rather than being a limitation of measurement.
  • One participant argues that while the uncertainty of particles is significant at the quantum level, it becomes negligible for macroscopic objects, allowing for the formation of stable structures like atoms and humans.
  • Another participant points out that the uncertainty in the position and momentum of electrons leads to the concept of an electron cloud, where the total energy is known but individual kinetic and potential energies remain uncertain.
  • There is a challenge regarding the logical connection between the uncertainty principle and the formation of macroscopic objects, with some participants expressing confusion over this relationship.
  • A participant notes that unless particles are continuously measured, the uncertainty principle does not directly apply to their behavior in a stable state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the uncertainty principle and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus on the relationship between quantum behavior and macroscopic object formation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of the uncertainty principle and its implications for particle behavior, as well as the dependence on definitions of measurement and observation in quantum mechanics.

dilshada shabnam
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heisenbergs uncertainity says that we can never predict the position and velocity of a particle exactly simultaneously. that is we can never be sure where an electron or a proton would be seconds from now. its all about probability.

then how can these particles together form something like we humans or the objects around us which arent like these constituent particles?
 
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dilshada shabnam said:
heisenbergs uncertainity says that we can never predict the position and velocity of a particle exactly simultaneously.
No, it says those quantities do not even exist exactly simultaneously. It is not a limit of our measurements.
dilshada shabnam said:
then how can these particles together form something like we humans or the objects around us which arent like these constituent particles?
The uncertainty is tiny, and irrelevant for macroscopic objects. As an example, the position of electrons in an atom is uncertain - but you can still be certain that the electron is part of the atom. And atoms are too tiny to see them (with light).
 
dilshada shabnam said:
heisenbergs uncertainity says that we can never predict the position and velocity of a particle exactly simultaneously. that is we can never be sure where an electron or a proton would be seconds from now. its all about probability.

then how can these particles together form something like we humans or the objects around us which arent like these constituent particles?

Not sure how your first paragraph relates to your second. I don't see the logical connection between the two.

The HUP says that, UPON A MEASUREMENT, our accuracy to predict a certain value will depend on how well we can predict the other corresponding value. But this effect, as mfb has stated, is VERY, VERY small. Otherwise, we will have seen it all the time and it won't be that unusual.

Now, unless you have a microscopic creature that continually spy on what your electrons and other sub-atomic particles are doing in your body all the time, these particles are NOT being continually measured and observed, which means that HUP is not directly in play when you just leave it alone.

Zz.
 
Even in an atom, the position and momentum of the electrons are uncertain, and wavefunction for position looks like a cloud, so we talk about an electron cloud. The total energy is known, but the potential energy and kinetic energy of an electron in the cloud are uncertain.
 

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