How electrons show wave phenomenon within an atom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the wave phenomenon exhibited by electrons within an atom, particularly in the context of atomic orbitals such as Px, Py, and Pz. Participants explore the nature of wave functions, the concept of probability distributions, and the implications of these wave characteristics on electron behavior and energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe quantum waves as sums over orbital modes, suggesting that electron states can change over time due to interactions, leading to measurements that yield different orbital results.
  • Others argue that electrons do not interchange between lobes of orbitals, emphasizing that these lobes represent probability distributions rather than fixed positions until measured.
  • A participant mentions that p_x and p_y orbitals can be viewed as standing waves, formed from linear combinations of spherical harmonics.
  • Another participant raises a question about the manifestation of wave characteristics in atoms, suggesting that it relates to the phase factor in the electronic wavefunction.
  • One participant discusses the hydrogen atom, noting that the quantization of energy levels is evidenced by the limited frequencies emitted during electron transitions, which can be explained by the standing wave model of bound electrons.
  • It is noted that free electrons, not bound to a nucleus, do not exhibit standing wave behavior and can possess any energy value.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of how electrons exhibit wave phenomena, with some focusing on the probabilistic nature of orbitals and others discussing the mathematical representation of these states. There is no consensus on the exact nature of electron interchange or the implications of wave characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and may depend on definitions of terms like "dumble" and "standing wave." The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the wave-particle duality of electrons and the implications for atomic structure.

Parveen
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what is wave and how electrons show wave phenomenon within an atom. like in Px or Py or Pz orbital how electrons interchanged from one dumble to another?
 
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Just as a classical wave can be expressed as a sum over normal modes, a quantum wave can be expressed as a sum over orbital modes.

When you measure the energy and angular momentum of an electron in an atom, you get a single result, and the state related to that single result is a single orbital. Even though at one time the state of an electron is purely in one orbital, interactions with other particles and the environment may cause the state of the electron to slowly change over time so that it becomes a sum over multiple orbitals again. When the state of the electron becomes a sum over multiple orbitals, it becomes likely that when you make later measurements, you get different results, corresponding to different orbitals.
 
Parveen said:
like in Px or Py or Pz orbital how electrons interchanged from one dumble to another?

I don't think electrons are interchanged between dumbbells or lobes. Those are simply probability maps which show you where an electron is likely to be found. Until you make a measurement you don't know where the electron is. I don't think you can even say that it has a set position.
 
Parveen said:
what is wave and how electrons show wave phenomenon within an atom. like in Px or Py or Pz orbital how electrons interchanged from one dumble to another?
The p_x and p_y are standing waves, linear combinations of counterrotating spherical harmonics Y_{1,-1} and Y_{1,1}
 
Parveen said:
what is wave and how electrons show wave phenomenon within an atom. like in Px or Py or Pz orbital how electrons interchanged from one dumble to another?

Whoa! People actually understood this? What exactly is a "dumble"?

I'll make up my own question: how is the "wave" characteristics manifested in an atom?

Answer: via the existence of a PHASE factor in the electronic wavefunction.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
What exactly is a "dumble"?

What goes through a Dumbledore.

He means "dumbbell".
 
Parveen said:
what is wave and how electrons show wave phenomenon within an atom
The Hydrogen atom is the easiest one to consider. The way they 'show it' is in the spectrum of the em waves that are emitted from the atom when it is excited. The fact that only a limited number of transitions take place (evidence is the limited number of frequencies emitted) implies that there are a limited set of energy levels in the atom. (The energy is quantised). A suitable explanation for this is that the configuration of the electron must be in the form of standing waves. The solution to the equation of motion of the electron gives integer values for the coefficients if you assume a wavelike nature for the bound electrons. That model fits the evidence so it's accepted as being the right one (or 'a' right one).
That is for a 'bound' electron. When an electron is free of any nearby nucleus, it can have any value of energy and so there is no standing wave involved.
 

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